Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Runnin said:

As another poster mentioned, the ball doesn't care where it is.  Only the mind does.  I will hit bad shots on the course that I almost never hit on the driving range.

How often on the range do you face the same conditions: you haven't made a swing with that club perhaps yet that day, the lie is sidehill/downhill from a slightly burned out lie, you've just walked up and down a hill for 250 yards and spent two minutes looking for your buddy's ball… etc.?

On the range you're just out there hitting the same club over and over, from flat lies, to the same target over and over.

7 hours ago, Runnin said:

Course management is all mental.

And yet someone who can't break 100 can be better at "course management" than a PGA Tour pro. So even if you want to put that in the "mental" column, it doesn't account for much of anything.

7 hours ago, Runnin said:

How you practice and approach your continuing improvement is part of it too.

Nah. I'm not giving you that one. How you practice determines how well the "physical" side of things improve.

7 hours ago, Runnin said:

Controlling your tempo in your swing and distance on long putts is mental.

No, it's not. Controlling distance on long putts is entirely a physical thing - delivering the clubhead to the ball with the proper impact conditions (clubhead speed, AoA, contact location, path, loft, etc.).

And nobody is thinking about their tempo when playing. That's on autopilot at that point. It occurs without thinking.

7 hours ago, Runnin said:

Why do we even have to practice? So our minds can teach our bodies what to do.

Oh brother, so you're just gonna attribute everything to the mind because golf is not something we do naturally, like breathing, is that it?

6 hours ago, Runnin said:

Over the years we've heard so much about golf and sports being mental but where are the great tips and instruction on the mental side of the game?

Maybe… just throwing it out there… it's not nearly as mental as you seem to believe it is? 

Maybe… just throwing it out there… the player with the superior physical skills almost always wins, and the most the mental aspect can add is a sliver of an advantage?

I'm going to lose almost all the time to a table tennis person rated two hundred points higher. I can know the location of the pitch, the speed, the shape (curve, slider, etc.), and I can be coached to have all the positive mental imagery and confidence in the world… and still not hit the ball as well as an MLB player who is singing along to music on headphones, using a bat that isn't their own, and facing a pitcher they've never seen before.

6 hours ago, Runnin said:

This keeps tension from creeping into my muscles by staying too long at address thinking about too many things.

Muscular tension is a physical thing. It may be a manifestation of a mental thing, but it is itself a physical thing.

3 hours ago, Midpack said:

I would have called game planning, green reading and just practicing effectively mental, along with just maintaining composure/managing pressure/stress.

Green reading isn't mental. You train the physical to do it. I've taught seven-year-olds to read greens better than far more accomplished golfers in 30 minutes. The training involves paying attention to physical sensations.

3 hours ago, Midpack said:

What's the essential difference between someone who just mindlessly bashes ball after ball at the range vs someone who practices with purpose?

One is doing a better job of training the physical.

Seriously, if you want to attribute everything to the mental game because we're sentient human beings and golf is not an instinctual thing, be my guest, but that renders the conversation silly at that point.

[jsgolfer]

5 hours ago, bones75 said:

It's weird, I'm really starting to doubt my own perception of things. i think every golfer in my group can swing differently (and slightly more often worse) under pressure. Amongst the 16-20 of us (and i think it's relevant we all have collegiate athletic experience and all within 4 years of age), these type of things seem prevalent to me:

- 2 footers for $100 don't drop as often as 2 footers for nothing.
- hard-6 vs easy-5 skews more towards the hard-6 during pressure holes/rounds
- there are both more birdies as well more bogey+'s and penalties on "big" days vs a weekend outing (and we play stroke play only)
- and i actually believe all of us, "generally" score worse on "big" days (say looking over at least a year period).  Me for example, I generally play well on "big" days, but my worst rounds of the last 10 years I know for a fact also correlates to "big" rounds, even if it doesn't happen very often.

And for certain guys, it consistently works out bad for them, and vice versa.

I would agree that this occurs frequently, but I don't ascribe this to a mental failure on anyone.  I guess lots of people think pressure is a mental thing instead of a physical one when you tense up.  To me it's just physical when the muscles tense up.  

And in the groups I play in, there are far more 2-3 foot putts given during a normal round.  So when it comes down to making a 2 foot downhill slider in a tournament or for big money, there is a better chance to miss it, as you haven't trained yourself yourself physically to make it.

When penalties occur, you take your equitable stroke, no matter what your score.  And the majority of golfers I play with take double bogey max for their equitable stroke, as they are single digit handicaps.

And at least at my course, during tournaments, the course is setup a lot more difficult.  Pins will be tougher, greens are usually cut and rolled twice, so lots of putts are defensive to make sure you don't three putt.  Plus with some of our pin locations, you just can't be aggressive when the course is playing under tournament conditions, because if you're long you're inviting a bad score.    

I used to attribute any bad hole or score as a mental failure on my part.  And it has a lot to do with being on this blog that I don't anymore, it wasn't that I was failing mentally, it was that I was trying things physically which I had never really practiced.  

Now, I draw the ball exclusively, but there were times in the past where I would try and work the ball left to right if the hole was a dogleg right or the pin was on the left or the right.  At times it would work and I would play well and other times no so much.  Now I just hit my stock shot pretty much all of the time (unless I have to hit a fade to go around a tree or such).   For the most part I take half the course out of play (aim right and bring it back to the left) and my scores (especially in tournaments) are not as varied anymore.  I just play to my strengths (draw) now versus trying to do things physically I should have never tried.    

I found this online, which was called 4 mental tips to improve confidence.

4 Strategies to Improve your Confidence:

1. Note your strengths and don’t be afraid to improve your weaknesses – When you talk and think about the things you do well, your confidence grows and your mood improves.  

2. Set attainable goals for yourself – Set short term goals that you can achieve. As you accomplish these smaller goals, you will feel better about your prospects of achieving more in the future.

3. Practice like it matters – More meaningful repetitions in practice will improve your physical skills and increase your belief that you can replicate these skills in competition.

4. Stop measuring your success based on the success of others – Comparing yourself to others is a sure-fire way to lower confidence. Keep the focus on yourself and look to improve your skills each day.

Although they say these are mental skills to improve confidence, everything here is pretty much doing physical stuff to improve your confidence. Sorry for the long rant.

[mcanadiens]

And there we are.

Mental is your ability to stay calm and composed. Sure then. Physical is most of it, but more of it for some of us than others. The term "head case" got used a couple of times. Maybe not the nicest way to put it, but there are worse so i'll go with it.

For your collective sakes, I hope I'm the worst head case on this board. A good mental day will never mean I shoot 70 because I can't physically swing a golf club well enough for that. However, the gap between a good mental day and a bad one for me, can be very significant. Experience shows the difference can be between a score in the mid to high 80s on a good day versus blowing triple digits.

For most, the difference probably isn't nearly as significant, but its a real thing for some of us.

 

[Lihu]

6 hours ago, bones75 said:

It's weird, I'm really starting to doubt my own perception of things. i think every golfer in my group can swing differently (and slightly more often worse) under pressure. Amongst the 16-20 of us (and i think it's relevant we all have collegiate athletic experience and all within 4 years of age), these type of things seem prevalent to me:

- 2 footers for $100 don't drop as often as 2 footers for nothing.
- hard-6 vs easy-5 skews more towards the hard-6 during pressure holes/rounds
- there are both more birdies as well more bogey+'s and penalties on "big" days vs a weekend outing (and we play stroke play only)
- and i actually believe all of us, "generally" score worse on "big" days (say looking over at least a year period).  Me for example, I generally play well on "big" days, but my worst rounds of the last 10 years I know for a fact also correlates to "big" rounds, even if it doesn't happen very often.

And for certain guys, it consistently works out bad for them, and vice versa.

I've seen the above as well, but the above list doesn't really require having a different full swing. I was only addressing the comment about having a grossly different swing under pressure.

[Zekez]

5 hours ago, Midpack said:

Revealing thread, there are varying "definitions" of what's mental and what's physical. I would have called game planning, green reading and just practicing effectively mental, along with just maintaining composure/managing pressure/stress. What's the essential difference between someone who just mindlessly bashes ball after ball at the range vs someone who practices with purpose?

"The way I look at it in golf is that the mental game is a mechanism for fulfilling physical potential. Physical potential being a function of natural ability and effort put in through practice, instruction, conditioning, etc. Physical potential won’t automatically be transferred to the golf course in the form of performance. That is where a strong mental game steps in and allows the body to perform the tasks it has already been trained to do.

In other words, the mental game bridges physical potential and physical performance. When faced with consequence on the golf course, the physical motion the body already knows how to perform can be hindered by doubt, fear, and anxiety. Our mind and body know how to physically execute the shot, and the mental game is required to protect that ability by warding off the potential doubt, fear or anxiety."

That seems like an excellent description.  Thanks.

[Lihu]

48 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

And there we are.

Mental is your ability to stay calm and composed. Sure then. Physical is most of it, but more of it for some of us than others. The term "head case" got used a couple of times. Maybe not the nicest way to put it, but there are worse so i'll go with it.

Many of us started out like this. It's also quite possible that many of us have a misconception as to how well we should play. If we approach the course with no notion of performance and just play for the sake of playing, then we probably take all the mental aspect out of the game in the sense that we are not letting our emotions overcome our ability.

Many people say they don't want to see their scores until after the round is complete because they don't want good or bad scores to influence their emotions. They correctly feel that they are more apprehensive about shooting well to either extricate themselves from a bad round or to break a personal best or whatever.

The bottom line is if we play and just score or use a tracking device like GG then and always let performance take a back seat to everything else we would have a better idea of how we actually play by looking at unbiased data without the "mental" aspect potentially skewing the scores. Then if we set our expectations based upon that, we might not be so dissatisfied with ourselves.

The biggest complaint I hear on the course is "I can play better." My first thought is "No, you really can't." You play what you play, and it kind of boils down to how well you swing and strike the ball.

 

Quote

For your collective sakes, I hope I'm the worst head case on this board. A good mental day will never mean I shoot 70 because I can't physically swing a golf club well enough for that. However, the gap between a good mental day and a bad one for me, can be very significant. Experience shows the difference can be between a score in the mid to high 80s on a good day versus blowing triple digits.

For most, the difference probably isn't nearly as significant, but its a real thing for some of us.

You're not the only basket case. Lower your expectations to your actual performance and you won't be unhappy with anything you do on the course.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Lihu

[Midpack]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Seriously, if you want to attribute everything to the mental game because we're sentient human beings and golf is not an instinctual thing, be my guest, but that renders the conversation silly at that point.

I never attributed "everything to the mental game." There seems to be some disagreement on where the line between physical and mental might be drawn, no biggie.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Midpack

[Lihu]

12 minutes ago, Midpack said:

I never attributed "everything to the mental game." There seems to be some disagreement on where the line between physical and mental might be drawn, no biggie.

I think one camp is of the opinion that "when you swing better you'll score better", while the other is in the "take your crappy swing" and get some "motivation" to maximize your scoring potential.

Golf is a very statistical game. Almost every aspect is "statistical".

When you go out there, conditions can cause a lot of mishaps. They can also create good situations, although this is a lot less common.

The only non-variable is the ability of the golfer to swing well and his/her ability make good contact. Generally, the better a swing and contact, the lower the score. Everything else is kind of relevant to what score they end up with plus or minus some number. That plus or minus is not really predictable except by where you land the ball which is, again, related to the swing and contact. I am assuming that the golfer has reasonable judgement as to where to aim the ball in the first place. . .

Edited September 26, 2017 by Lihu

[rehmwa]

22 minutes ago, Midpack said:

There seems to be some disagreement on where the line between physical and mental might be drawn

ya think?

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

ya think?

At this point, "mental" has been defined as "mental state" as opposed to "use of the brain".

[GolfLug]

If variance in scores/game is mental (use of brain or mental/emotional state..whatever) then why do higher HCPs almost universally have higher variance in their scores compared to lower??

That would be like stating that higher HCPs are universally less capable 'mentally' whether it be use of brain or being better at controlling emotions. Yeah, that flies... 

 

 

[mcanadiens]

11 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

If variance in scores/game is mental (use of brain or mental/emotional state..whatever) then why do higher HCPs almost universally have higher variance in their scores compared to lower??

That would be like stating that higher HCPs are universally less capable 'mentally' whether it be use of brain or being better at controlling emotions. Yeah, that flies... 

 

 

Because, when you have a bad swing, it is that much more difficult to do what you have to do to hit a ball.

If you are good, it's much more automatic.

[GolfLug]

6 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Because, when you have a bad swing, it is that much more difficult to do what you have to do to hit a ball.

If you are good, it's much more automatic.

I know, but surely you do not think that it is because you are inherently less capable of focusing, controlling emotions, are less intelligent, less present, less aware, less capable of dealing with pressure more tightly wound.. all things 'mental'. 

Hell, you could make a better case that the physical state of game affect the mental state. Not the other way around. 

[dzclarkcpa]

Have read several of the comments on this post, but not all, so forgive me if I repeat something.

Would seem to me that first, we need to define what "mental" means. To me it means course management and thinking your way around a golf course. May not mean that to anyone else, but that is what I think about when I voted that golf was more mental. But I think @iacas said it best when he said without physical ability, the mental side doesn't mean much (sorry if I completely butchered what you were trying to say).

So for me, I am where I am physical. I play to somewhere between a 6 to a 10 handicap. I can shoot rounds around par and I can shoot round in the 90's. For me, I have the ability (sometimes) to hit the shots I need, but I need to improve on my mental game. To me that means planning where I hit a shot, taking big numbers out of the equation and actually thinking through recovery shots. For me, this is most important because I have neither the time nor the desire to spend hours on a driving range tweaking my swing. I am going to play with what I have, so for me, finding a way to salvage 3 shots a round is important.

Physical is most important to some, mental is more important to others. Just depends where you are on the curve.

[mcanadiens]

Just now, GolfLug said:

I know, but surely you do not think that it is because you are inherently less capable of focusing, controlling emotions, are less intelligent, less present, less aware, less capable of dealing with pressure more tightly wound.. all things 'mental'. 

Hell, you could make a better case that the physical state of game affect the mental state. Not the other way around. 

Again, these things probably hit other people differently. Yes.. I am inherently less capable of those things. Because 1) My swing is awful and 2) I'm a lunatic. The fact that my swing is bad makes my mental issues that much worse as it relates to golf. Hence, it can make a larger difference for me than it would you. 

Actually your second paragraph is probably a much more positive way to put it. If my swing were better, the mental stuff wouldn't matter as much. I agree with that.

[jsgolfer]

11 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I know, but surely you do not think that it is because you are inherently less capable of focusing, controlling emotions, are less intelligent, less present, less aware, less capable of dealing with pressure more tightly wound.. all things 'mental'. 

Hell, you could make a better case that the physical state of game affect the mental state. Not the other way around. 

Bingo.  

[GolfLug]

15 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Again, these things probably hit other people differently. Yes.. I am inherently less capable of those things. Because 1) My swing is awful and 2) I'm a lunatic. The fact that my swing is bad makes my mental issues that much worse as it relates to golf. Hence, it can make a larger difference for me than it would you. 

Actually your second paragraph is probably a much more positive way to put it. If my swing were better, the mental stuff wouldn't matter as much. I agree with that.

I hope you are not personally offended. I am sure you know this but I was only referring to a general 'you' since we are mainly talking generalities. 

[rehmwa]

29 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I know, but surely you do not think that it is because you are inherently less capable of focusing, controlling emotions, are less intelligent, less present, less aware, less capable of dealing with pressure more tightly wound.. all things 'mental'.

Interesting take on it.  The mental game takes practice just as much as the physical game.  So, yes, these are all true when specifically talking about getting better at any specific activity.  Yes, we are less able to focus, less intelligent, less present, less aware, etc.  then you practice and get better.

Reading it as a general insult to overall mental capability is kind of a false argument.  It would be like saying a beginner golfer hits poorly because he is just an overall klutz and has zero coordination or natural ability.  (it's true, in terms of golf, but it's not really an insult if one thinks it through).

I'll leave a bad day thinking, "wow, my head just wasn't in it today".  Maybe it's reflected in my physicial performance, but it's the concentration and focus that lost it.  the mental triggers the physical.  the whole poll is kind of a fakeout.  YMMV

Edited September 26, 2017 by rehmwa