• Announcements

    • iacas

      Introducing TST "Clubs!"   08/28/2017

      No, we're not getting into the equipment business, but we do have "clubs" here on TST now. Groups. Check them out here:
phillyk

40 Putts per Round, Average of 96 (Dave Pelz)?

Recommended Posts

I saw a quick introduction to wedge week from Dave Pelz.  He started with saying the average score is 96 and then moved to saying the average golfer takes 40 putts per round.... WHAT! The AVERAGE is 40?! Where'd he get that number from?  That means some golfers are taking like 45 putts.  That seems ridiculous.  Then he said there are 19 wedges, 14 irons, 21 drivers or woods, and 2 random shots.  The first search result online is from March 2017, a golf digest article saying GameGolf calculated the average putts per round at 34 from its users.  That's more believable for putting.  I'm not sure where he got the stats on the other shots, but I'm pretty sure they're off a bit too.

Then of course, he goes into the conversation about adding putts and wedges to say, well since you have 64% of strokes here, clearly that's what you practice.  :doh:  It's annoying when you have GC going around saying these instructors are the best of the best and you should listen to them, and then they give you BS.  I think Pelz short game instruction is great, but short game is not nearly as important to practice as he says it is.

Rant over... I am looking forward to seeing the other stuff, though, but I have a feeling some information will go in one ear and out the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

 

2 hours ago, phillyk said:

 

Then of course, he goes into the conversation about adding putts and wedges to say, well since you have 64% of strokes here, clearly that's what you practice. 

Well, I'd say that this is well in line with anything that is preached around here.   The general practice ratio's are always qualified with, "unless you have a glaring weakness in a specific part of your game".   

If you are averaging 40 putts per round on 96 shots, you better spend like 80% of your practice time on the putting green.   That makes you a high 80's golfer if you can just putt like a normal person.  

Edited by lastings

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

52 minutes ago, lastings said:

 

Well, I'd say that this is well in line with anything that is preached around here.   The general practice ratio's are always qualified with, "unless you have a glaring weakness in a specific part of your game".   

If you are averaging 40 putts per round on 96 shots, you better spend like 80% of your practice time on the putting green.   That makes you a high 80's golfer if you can just putt like a normal person.  

I absolutely agree that if you have 40 putts a round to practice that.  But the average golfer is NOT putting 40 times, it's probably closer to 34 putts.

I was thinking about it more.  The numbers Pelz was giving us did not include penalty strokes, so I'm not sure where he allocated them.

Edited by phillyk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

3 hours ago, phillyk said:

I saw a quick introduction to wedge week from Dave Pelz.  He started with saying the average score is 96 and then moved to saying the average golfer takes 40 putts per round.... WHAT! The AVERAGE is 40?! Where'd he get that number from?  That means some golfers are taking like 45 putts.  That seems ridiculous.

My average score these days is about 89, and I've been averaging 40 putts or more.

 

1 hour ago, lastings said:

 If you are averaging 40 putts per round on 96 shots, you better spend like 80% of your practice time on the putting green.

Probably so. Haven't spent much time at all on putting nor short game. I doubt I'd ever get down to 30 putts per round. I feel like it would be easier for me to learn to hit my irons closer to the pin than being a 30 putt per round putter by putting practice alone.

OTOH, they are likely related. . .

 

Quote

That makes you a high 80's golfer if you can just putt like a normal person.  

I wish it was this easy. :-D

 

17 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I absolutely agree that if you have 40 putts a round to practice that.  But the average golfer is NOT putting 40 times, it's probably closer to 34 putts.

I was thinking about it more.  The numbers Pelz was giving us did not include penalty strokes, so I'm not sure where he allocated them.

I doubt the average golfer is going to be getting penalties on a putting green that often.

Some people might not "count" some of their putts or something, and makes the general sense that the average 96 golfer putts 34 or something like that?

I was down to 34 when I played every day, but now 40 seems the norm.

Edited by Lihu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

5 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I doubt the average golfer is going to be getting penalties on a putting green that often.

Some people might not "count" some of their putts or something, and makes the general sense that the average 96 golfer putts 34 or something like that?

I was down to 34 when I played every day, but now 40 seems the norm.

Not penalties when putting.  Penalties in general when he was allocating how many strokes are on greens, wedges, irons, and woods.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I am sorry, but 40 putts? That would mean at least four 3 putts a round and more likely 8 or 9. This also would mean someone missing the green, chipping on, and then 3 putting several times a round. I have played with some AWFUL golfers including a friend of mine who is literally the worst putter I have ever seen. It's possible he might get close to 40 putts if he hit more greens, but the fact of the matter is he misses a majority of greens so he is chipping on closer to the pin than if he was on in regulation. If someone averages 40 putts a round they have some major issues that need to be addressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

12 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

I am sorry, but 40 putts? That would mean at least four 3 putts a round and more likely 8 or 9. This also would mean someone missing the green, chipping on, and then 3 putting several times a round. I have played with some AWFUL golfers including a friend of mine who is literally the worst putter I have ever seen. It's possible he might get close to 40 putts if he hit more greens, but the fact of the matter is he misses a majority of greens so he is chipping on closer to the pin than if he was on in regulation. If someone averages 40 putts a round they have some major issues that need to be addressed.

Or putting on which is many cases for me. My irons over-draw at the moment. My statistics might also be skewed because I just tag a putter whether actually on the green or not. But there it stands at 40+.

Edited by Lihu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

7 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Or putting on which is many cases for me. My irons over-draw at the moment. My statistics might also be skewed because I just tag a putter whether actually on the green or not. But there it stands at 40+.

To count as a putt it must be struck from on the green. Even if you use a putter from off the green it doesn't count as a putt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

18 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

To count as a putt it must be struck from on the green. Even if you use a putter from off the green it doesn't count as a putt.

Yes, I know, so I'm guessing I have 3 or 4 of those per round. My particular statistics are likely closer to 36 to 37. This is someone who really doesn't practice putting at all. I know how to train it. I just haven't spent any time on it.

However, on topic, I think that what Dave is saying is including those shots. I do currently use my putter for 40 shots a round. I also believe that the average golfer uses the putter at least as much as me for the same purposes. There are many reasons for needing to use the putter 40 times a round.

Also, some golfers don't count that 2 footer that they miss and double tap in a "hurry" as three strokes.

Where I disagree with Dave and that video, is that the easier solution is to improve the approach game and the tee shots to put yourself in a position where you don't have to chip or putt on. Those are very likely a golfer's best holes.

Edited by Lihu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Why is this thread stuck on 40 putts when we are talking abooooot wedge week?

Playing yesterday with 3 other guys and I can't tell you how many shots were lost within 10 yrds of the green due to poor pitches or chips. I even made a boo boo when I had too much forward lean and caught a dig on wet turf. But I holed a flop from the rough off the green, so I had that going for me.... lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

2 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Why is this thread stuck on 40 putts when we are talking abooooot wedge week?

Playing yesterday with 3 other guys and I can't tell you how many shots were lost within 10 yrds of the green due to poor pitches or chips. I even made a boo boo when I had too much forward lean and caught a dig on wet turf. But I holed a flop from the rough off the green, so I had that going for me.... lol.

Sure, in my past 3 rounds I missed a lot of those as well. Usually, because the ball was sitting on a lump or something like that. If I was on nice fluffy grass, it wouldn't have happened. :whistle:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

31 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Why is this thread stuck on 40 putts when we are talking abooooot wedge week?

Playing yesterday with 3 other guys and I can't tell you how many shots were lost within 10 yrds of the green due to poor pitches or chips. I even made a boo boo when I had too much forward lean and caught a dig on wet turf. But I holed a flop from the rough off the green, so I had that going for me.... lol.

The better long term fix for those is to just get the approach shot on the green then you dont have to chip :whistle:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

57 minutes ago, Lihu said:

However, on topic, I think that what Dave is saying is including those shots. I do currently use my putter for 40 shots a round. I also believe that the average golfer uses the putter at least as much as me for the same purposes. There are many reasons for needing to use the putter 40 times a round.

If Pelz really is including putts from off the green in his putting stats then his ridiculous statistics are even more skewed than anyone originally thought. 

Look, I get that a short game Guru wants to put as much emphasis on his product as possible, but use actual facts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I'm amazed at the response to someone overselling his product.

18 holes at 2 putts per = 36.  add a few 3 putts and you are at 40.  so what.

 

probably a good estimate for people that are really bad at putting, chipping, and pitching - and that's who's interested in this series

as for an 'average' score of 96, I have no idea.  Sounds about right.  Not a lot of 'average' golfers on a site devoted to golf here.  I suspect we are a bit skewed in our expectations

 

(here I'm trying to get my head wrapped around 21 drivers or woods....14 Par 4 and 5, maybe 1 long par 3....4 second shots on par 5's, maybe a second shot on a long par 4 or two?)

Edited by rehmwa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

6 minutes ago, NM Golf said:

If Pelz really is including putts from off the green in his putting stats then his ridiculous statistics are even more skewed than anyone originally thought. 

Look, I get that a short game Guru wants to put as much emphasis on his product as possible, but use actual facts. 

Sure, I kind of agree with this.

But hey, if you holed all 19 wedge shots, you'd eliminate 40 shots per round. :-D

Obviously, Dave hasn't watched the "typical" 96 shooter. Most hit 56 shots from the tee to the green, and whatever else is short game. I think he's only looking at golfers in 70+ age group who hit every fairway and get near the green with a wood or something?

Edited by Lihu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

A golf pro I worked with for three years had an interesting observation on the short game.

When he played in college, he was the conference low-putt leader his junior year. He attributed this to being a very skillful chipper and pitcher, and a decent putter. You will have a better putting average if you get your chips and pitches closer.

His senior season he improved his GIR average, and did not make low-putt leader. Birdie putts tended quite a bit longer than the clean-up putts after solid chips and pitches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

10 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

His senior season he improved his GIR average, and did not make low-putt leader. Birdie putts tended quite a bit longer than the clean-up putts after solid chips and pitches.

Assuming it was a significant jump in GIR %, I would bet that his overall score dropped for his senior year too even though his putts went up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

 

9 hours ago, phillyk said:

He started with saying the average score is 96 and then moved to saying the average golfer takes 40 putts per round.... WHAT!

No one I've ever played with putts worse than me - even those who score higher. I average just under 40 per round (and that doesn't include those from off the green.) I can't imagine 40 is the average for even high cappers.

5 hours ago, Lihu said:

Or putting on which is many cases for me. My irons over-draw at the moment. My statistics might also be skewed because I just tag a putter whether actually on the green or not. But there it stands at 40+.

Not correcting any off-the-green putts will also pad your GIR's stat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now