How Important Is a Straight Left Arm?

[Lihu]

26 minutes ago, Lime Shark said:

1) Because so many amateurs have problems keeping the arm even relatively straight.

2) It's a "canary in the coal  mine." Why can't most people not keep their arm straight? Because there is something else wrong with their swing preventing them from keeping the arm straight.

3) 90% of successful golfers have kept the arm relatively straight. Most amateurs want to emulate what most other successful golfers have done.

I agree that a straight lead arm is a nice thing to have, and I've worked to try to achieve this. I don't think it's the recipe for success, though. I played at a 7.6 handicap with a bent arm and terrible other stuff, but played every single day to work around that limitation. I'm currently playing to a 10 (the 16 in my profile is a long story ) with a straight arm.

So, while the swing looks nicer with a straight arm, it's probably not essential.

[Hacker James]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I agree that a straight lead arm is a nice thing to have, and I've worked to try to achieve this. I don't think it's the recipe for success, though. I played at a 7.6 handicap with a bent arm and terrible other stuff, but played every single day to work around that limitation. I'm currently playing to a 10 (the 16 in my profile is a long story ) with a straight arm.

So, while the swing looks nicer with a straight arm, it's probably not essential.

I do not disagree with what anyone has said.  I brought the subject up in my OP as just something to be aware of.  In my being aware of keeping a somewhat straight lead arm, it helped me in the turn to achieve it. It would be difficult for me to keep a straight arm and NOT turn, one leads to the other.  Granted, having a better turn, leads to the left arm being straight but not necessarily versa visa if there is something else wrong. So many perceptions are fleeting. All I can say is "for now", it is helping.

[Lime Shark]

36 minutes ago, Lihu said:

So, while the swing looks nicer with a straight arm, it's probably not essential.

I disagree.

99% of professional golfers throughout history have maintained a relatively straight arm through the entire swing process.

The other 1% are exceptions to the rule, and were able to be successful despite bending their arm because they were also exceptional athletes.

Few amateur golfers are exceptional enough athletes that they  can ignore one of the basic fundamentals of the golf swing and still be successful. Keeping the lead arm relatively straight IS on the FUNDAMENTALS of the golf swing.

Google "pro golfer top of backswing" and look at the images. By my count, it is at least a 25 to 1 ratio of straight to bent arms at the top of the backswing.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Lime Shark

[Hacker James]

7 minutes ago, Lime Shark said:

I disagree.

99% of professional golfers throughout history have maintained a relatively straight arm through the entire swing process.

The other 1% are exceptions to the rule, and were able to be successful despite bending their arm because they were also exceptional athletes.

Few amateur golfers are exceptional enough athletes that they  can ignore one of the basic fundamentals of the golf swing and still be successful. Keeping the lead arm relatively straight IS on the FUNDAMENTALS of the golf swing.

Google "pro golfer top of backswing" and look at the images. By my count, it is at least a 25 to 1 ratio of straight to bent arms at the top of the backswing.

Relative  is a key word here.  As you already surmized, Straight not Stiff. And I have found that I do n eed to focus on this, Hopefully it will become second nature.

 

[Groucho Valentine]

2 hours ago, Lime Shark said:

1) Because so many amateurs have problems keeping the arm even relatively straight.

2) It's a "canary in the coal  mine." Why can't most people not keep their arm straight? Because there is something else wrong with their swing preventing them from keeping the arm straight.

3) 90% of successful golfers have kept the arm relatively straight. Most amateurs want to emulate what most other successful golfers have done.

I understand all of that. But it would be better if we tried to emulate other things about successful golfers besides what their arms look like at the top of their golf swings. Most of us aren't even flexible enough to get into the positions some of those guys on tour do.

[Lime Shark]

8 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

I understand all of that. But it would be better if we tried to emulate other things about successful golfers besides what their arms look like at the top of their golf swings. Most of us aren't even flexible enough to get into the positions some of those guys on tour do.

Most of us aren't ________ enough to do most of what the guys on tour do. Which is why it is important we pay attention to the fundamentals.

Keeping the arm relatively straight throughout the swing is a fundamental.

Most amateurs are much better off shortening their backswing in order to keep their arm straight, than they are having a bigger backswing with a bent arm.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Lime Shark

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Most of us aren't even flexible enough to get into the positions some of those guys on tour do.

I don't agree with that. Almost everyone I teach is flexible enough to achieve an 85-105° torso turn. It's the golfers who sway or don't use their hips to help them turn that often bend their left elbow.

In fact, I rarely discuss a bent lead arm. Golfers will sag the wrists or bend the lead arm to get the club back "far enough." Increase their turn and, almost always, the bent lead arm reduces. The club is back farther from the improved pivot.

[Lime Shark]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't agree with that. Almost everyone I teach is flexible enough to achieve an 85-105° torso turn. It's the golfers who sway or don't use their hips to help them turn that often bend their left elbow.

In fact, I rarely discuss a bent lead arm. Golfers will sag the wrists or bend the lead arm to get the club back "far enough." Increase their turn and, almost always, the bent lead arm reduces. The club is back farther from the improved pivot.

I actually think we'e on the same page as far as the arm goes.

You seem to be saying that when a golfer corrects some of their swing flaws (such as a poor pivot) the arm straightens naturally.

I said a non-straight arm is a sign of other problems with their swing (such as overswinging).

 

[Lihu]

22 hours ago, Lime Shark said:

I disagree.

99% of professional golfers throughout history have maintained a relatively straight arm through the entire swing process.

The other 1% are exceptions to the rule, and were able to be successful despite bending their arm because they were also exceptional athletes.

Few amateur golfers are exceptional enough athletes that they  can ignore one of the basic fundamentals of the golf swing and still be successful. Keeping the lead arm relatively straight IS on the FUNDAMENTALS of the golf swing.

Google "pro golfer top of backswing" and look at the images. By my count, it is at least a 25 to 1 ratio of straight to bent arms at the top of the backswing.

Straight gives you a little bit more leverage, but it’s mainly to get more consistent. If you can maintain consistency with a bent arm, it won’t be a substantial advantage.

That said, I’m still working on a straight arm, and am generally straight lead armed.

[Yff Theos]

Interestingly, hickory times champions were not even close to have straight left arm. Most probably due to their dress code.

[rehmwa]

saw the video and thought it was kind of a waste

my takeaway is the amateur (excellent player) has a swing thought that's likely 'overkilled' vs the pro whose numbers seemed to just reflect a more confident approach - no kidding

and, it's a sample size of 1 vs a sample size of 1......what can we even do with that?

[Lihu]

On 12/5/2017 at 8:01 AM, Hacker James said:

I do not disagree with what anyone has said.  I brought the subject up in my OP as just something to be aware of.  In my being aware of keeping a somewhat straight lead arm, it helped me in the turn to achieve it. It would be difficult for me to keep a straight arm and NOT turn, one leads to the other.  Granted, having a better turn, leads to the left arm being straight but not necessarily versa visa if there is something else wrong. So many perceptions are fleeting. All I can say is "for now", it is helping.

If it helps you do other things more consistently, then it's important for you. To be honest, all of the better local players I know have straight lead arms. . . @Lime Shark

 

[No Mulligans]

On 12/4/2017 at 10:35 AM, Lime Shark said:

BTW, the reason most people cannot keep their arm straight is they are swinging their arms around their body.

The arms remain in front of the chest during the backswing. It is an optical illusion that the arms swing around the body.

It's not an optical illusion, the arms do not remain in front of the chest.  Rather they are bending thier left shoulder seemingly as far as they can.  Just worked my way down the top 4 world ranked players.

Edited December 6, 2017 by No Mulligans

[Hacker James]

and in each of those, the arms are pretty much in front of the chest. The chest is turned towards the  back. Not centered in front mind you, but more in front than the arms past the chest.  A way to demonstrate this, is to hold the club in front of you as if you were going to bonk yourself on the forehead, then without moving your arms turn into the top of the backswing, turn your head to look at the club,  then again without moving your arms, turn back as facing in the same direction as you were at address. and note the club is still in front of you (more or less).

Edited December 6, 2017 by Hacker James

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

It's not an optical illusion, the arms do not remain in front of the chest.  Rather they are bending thier left shoulder seemingly as far as they can.  Just worked my way down the top 4 world ranked players.

So…

16 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

and in each of those, the arms are pretty much in front of the chest. The chest is turned towards the  back. Not centered in front mind you, but more in front than the arms past the chest.

Yup.

[Lime Shark]

A couple of times this thread has fallen into the trap of debating absolutes.

The arm doesn't have to be ramrod straight, but it should be essentially straight. The line in this linked image is bent 10 degrees, but for golf purposes I would call that essentially straight (any more than that I would not).

Do the arms remain 100% in front of the chest? No, they can drift a few inches to the side, but they do remain essentially in front of the chest. 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Lime Shark said:

A couple of times this thread has fallen into the trap of debating absolutes.

The arm doesn't have to be ramrod straight, but it should be essentially straight. The line in this linked image is bent 10 degrees, but for golf purposes I would call that essentially straight (any more than that I would not).

Do the arms remain 100% in front of the chest? No, they can drift a few inches to the side, but they do remain essentially in front of the chest. 

I find that seems to happen with golf swing discussions. People tend to oversimplify things, so when they think "straight" they think 180°, when there is a range of perfectly acceptable movement.

Same with the arms in front of the chest thing. Do the hands remain in the same position relative to the sternum at address? No. But they should be more "in front" than "to the side" of the chest.

Having a simple image like "keep your hands in front of your chest" can help people learn and understand a concept, but people take it too literally and end up missing the point.

[nevets88]