Open versus Closed Clubface @ Setup?

[saevel25]

Does the club face position relative to were the body is aimed have any tendencies or influences on how the club head travels in the backswing. Example, would setting up with the club face closed caused a person to want to roll the wrists over? 

[iacas]

I don't think so. But I've never conducted a study or anything.

I suspect, though, that a golfer who rolls the clubface open during the backswing would do that whether the face was slightly right or slightly left of the target until they're taught (or try it) otherwise.

[Buckeyebowman]

I don't think that makes any difference either. However, I would advise checking to see where your clubface is pointing. Take your address and have a buddy come up behind the club and hold the head of a tee on the clubface. Then, while he holds the club steady, let go of the grip and move behind him to see where the clubface is actually pointing!

I thought I was lining up with the clubface square, until it was demonstrated to me that I was not! I was setting up with it pointed to the right.

[saevel25]

Yea, I thought so, but it just crossed my mind today and I was intrigued. 

[p1n9183]

I set up with a closed face. No difference at all against a square one.
It just came closed at impact. Ideal for a draw if you aim rigth of your target 

[allenc]

I'd say it depends on the player.  I don't believe I hit it as well when I try to set up with an open or closed club face as when it is square.  That's made me wonder the same thing as you, but I've never tried to video record each setup to see if there is a difference in my swing.

[BaconNEggs]

If I have my club face open at address, I have a tendency to take the club back inside. Vice-versa for a closed club face. It's not something I consciously do, but my brain seems to want to take the club back on a line parallel with where the club face is pointing. To override that tendency, I'd have to consciously think about what line I'm bringing the club back on in the takeaway.

I'm not sure if that was what you meant, though. For what it's worth, that is how I address the ball when trying to hit a push draw (club face open to body line).

I know some players like Nicklaus advise playing with a slightly open club face, while some instructors like Shawn Clement advise the oppose. Nicklaus' logic was that the face will slightly close by the time it hits the ball, given the space between the face and ball at address, bringing it back to square. Clement's logic is that the face will be slightly more open by the time it hits the ball, given that your hands will be farther forward at impact, bringing it back to square. Neither might be necessarily wrong (there IS space between the ball and club at address, and your hands WILL likely be farther forward at impact) in their underlying logic, but both seem to really gloss over a lot to arrive at their conclusions. Sorry, that's probably not relevant to your original question!

[p1n9183]

14 minutes ago, BaconNEggs said:

Clement's logic is that the face will be slightly more open by the time it hits the ball, given that your hands will be farther forward at impact, bringing it back to square.

This is exactly why i set up with the face closed, at impact it´s still closed to the body but open in comparition to the starting angle of the face in the address. 

[Zeph]

I set up with the face open to promote a push-draw. The closed-clubface explanation might be true for some, but I don't think that logic can be applied to everyone. It also depends how you grip the club and address the ball. There are a lot of factors involved and I think saying you should set up closed because the hands are more forward at impact is a bit simple.

[BaconNEggs]

28 minutes ago, Zeph said:

I set up with the face open to promote a push-draw. The closed-clubface explanation might be true for some, but I don't think that logic can be applied to everyone. It also depends how you grip the club and address the ball. There are a lot of factors involved and I think saying you should set up closed because the hands are more forward at impact is a bit simple.

Agreed. That's why I don't like blanket advice like that. It's too simplistic and is typically delivered as a mandate (Jack said he almost never sees a good player with a square or slightly closed face at address-- I doubt that), when it's clear that people can play good golf with an open, shut, or square face at address.

It could be worth experimenting with, though. The open face at address helps me hit a push draw, like you. Clement, for example, would still have you with a slightly closed club face, and in to out path, whereby the face actually opens as a result of getting your hands forward, which would still allow you to hit a push draw (assuming it's still closed to path). I get what he's saying, and it obviously works for many, but like I said in my post above, my tendency is to take the club back parallel to the face alignment, and closed face for me was typically a disaster-- a lot of low and left trap hooks. It makes for a great low rescue shot out of left side trouble.

[itzzzberny]

I used to play a square face with my x-20 uniflex shafts. I would get a push draw but now with my Nike VFP xp95 s300 shafts, with a square face I get a straight flight with a draw. When I have the face slightly open at address, I’m getting back my push draw (not a crazy out right but very nice flight). Something I heard Jack say about how he never saw a great player set up square or closed at address. The reason if it’s square behind the ball then as it travels trough the ball it will be closing.  Very wise word from the best to ever do it. 

Also a pretty cool (old) video, first person view from tiger during his swing.

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by itzzzberny

[iacas]

7 hours ago, itzzzberny said:

Something I heard Jack say about how he never saw a great player set up square or closed at address. The reason if it’s square behind the ball then as it travels trough the ball it will be closing.  Very wise word from the best to ever do it.

Jack says a lot of things. Doesn't make them accurate.

BTW, Jack delivered the clubface to the ball "closed" (left) of his target line almost every time he hit the ball.