My Journey in Golf (Renamed from "Prove Me Wrong…")

[Righty to Lefty]

The most important thing in golf is to understand where you need to be in relation to the ball to hit it with maximum leverage and momentum, and then learn to aim it and manipulate it to desired shot shape. Once I learned where I needed to position myself in relation to the ball to hit it with consistent and predictable leverage my game took off.  This did involve some hours working on understanding the D Plane and the ball flight laws but it was well worth it because once I learned where my low point of my swing was and more importantly where it was when I looked down on the ball my ball striking took off. I will post the videos that helped me understand these principles the best. I learned that hitting a ball square club face to the swing arc always flies straight so when I'm judging the purity of the strike that determines the adjustment that I will make.  If the shot was struck solid, then I rotate everything around to put it on target and play golf. The low point for every club being struck off the ground is in the exact same place but it will look different visually because of the build of the club where as a wedge the handle of the club is in front of the club face but with a fairway wood it is more inline with the club face. The low is in the exact same place but the club is setting the golfer up because of the build of the club so this will make the ball position move when in reality the low point of the shot is still in same place in relation to the ball ( a few inches in front of it at impact.) With driver the low point is behind the ball proportionate to the tee height.

I found that the build of the golfer is what determines how the golfer sets up to the ball and there is no standard as long as you get the low point in the proper location by impact and can repeat it. I prefer to set my low point in front of the ball and keep it there as best I can throughout my swing. The the ball flight will tell the rest.  I never look at the ball in relation to my feet because the club is being held in the hands so the feet are not  what determine the swing plane, and found the shoulder line to be the true plane of the swing.  I get my low point in the correct place and then swing and see what happens.  If the strike is pure an the trajectory inline with what I expect then I do my best to repeat and put shots on target.  

When I am working on this I aim every shot at the same target because I want to see how my shoulder line changes as I move through the bag. I expect all of these shots to fly straight because I am intending to hit the shot with a square club face to the swing arc.  Then I work the ball by closing or opening the face after I have setup to the target and then see how much the shot draws or fades.  My focus is always on swinging to the line that my shoulder plane is pointing at and the result is that the club head will point at my target at impact. I can't think of one situation where the momentum of the swing would be sent directly at the target. It is always being sent at a tangent angle depending on which club is being hit. I also attempt to do nothing to interfere with the momentum and let the club track its arc and see what happens.  If impact isn't good I adjust my low point in relation to the ball to find it.  If the strike is good, but off target, I rotate everything around to put it on target.  

 

Here are my swings going through this process (Right Clicking on the videos and opening them in a different window should allow them to be seen): 

7 Iron I set the club on the ground at my predicted low point and strike the shot nicely.  It flew very straight and was struck pure so this ball is not back in my stance even though it appears that way from this angle. 

https://www.facebook.com/adrian.jones.7921975/videos/10161019253165627/

 

5 wood face on. 

https://www.facebook.com/adrian.jones.7921975/videos/10161019277960627/

 

Same 5 wood shot DTL it shows that the ball flew straight  and had no curve on it at all so this ball is not actually back in my stance and was struck with a club face square to the arc because it flew straight.  

https://www.facebook.com/adrian.jones.7921975/videos/10160554558735627/

 

Stats from the 5 wood 

https://www.facebook.com/adrian.jones.7921975/videos/10160554767100627/

 

The Youtube videos that changed my life: 

D Plane:

Ball Flight laws: No need to post any videos about ball flight laws as I think we all get it by now (I hope!!)

Here we go!! PROVE ME WRONG !!

 

[ChetlovesMer]

Dude, you need to drop your prove me wrong thing. It's just weird. 
Why not just say "here's some stuff I found on the internet. What do you think?"

[klineka]

24 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Here we go!! PROVE ME WRONG !!

Getting the ball in the hole is the most important thing in golf. There, you've been proved wrong. Topic over. 

---

C'mon dude, We all know strike is important. Do you really expect someone to disagree with you on that? 

Keys 4 and 5 from Five Simple Keys deal specifically with strike.

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by klineka

[Righty to Lefty]

12 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Dude, you need to drop your prove me wrong thing. It's just weird. 
Why not just say "here's some stuff I found on the internet. What do you think?"

Oh you mean the thread that is me explaining how I sped up my learning curve and played to a  5 handicap right and left handed.  I taught myself from scratch and I've never had a lesson before either right or left handed. Sure I used the internet because all of the information is there and I am just posting what helped me improve at the quickest rate. The title of the thread made you feel compelled to read it and respond so it did its job.  

5 minutes ago, klineka said:

Getting the ball in the hole is the most important thing in golf. There, you've been proved wrong. Topic over. 

---

C'mon dude, We all know strike is important. Do you really expect someone to disagree with you on that? 

Keys 4 and 5 from Five Simple Keys deal specifically with strike.

 

Well there you have it...this thread can be locked up then.  The thread obviously got your attention and all I am explaining is how I got to where I am in golf just the same way that 5SK developed their own method.  Crazy how my story about my journey offends so many that none of what I posted was even addressed in your response.  

[ChetlovesMer]

10 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Oh you mean the thread that is me explaining how I sped up my learning curve and played to a  5 handicap right and left handed.  I taught myself from scratch and I've never had a lesson before either right or left handed. Sure I used the internet because all of the information is there and I am just posting what helped me improve at the quickest rate. The title of the thread made you feel compelled to read it and respond so it did its job.  

Dude, Why are you such an A-hole? I'm just telling you there are millions of ways to express your ideas without being so confrontational. 

I'm just saying you should drop the "prove me wrong" thing. It makes you sound like a jackass. BTW - I read nearly every new post. You putting "prove me wrong on there is just plain stupid. 

Here you go:

Fat people are fatter than skinny people... unless they aren't.

PROVE ME WRONG!

[Foot Wedge]

19 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

The title of the thread made you feel compelled to read it and respond so it did its job.  

Did you just define clickbait?

[klineka]

16 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

The thread obviously got your attention and all I am explaining is how I got to where I am in golf just the same way that 5SK developed their own method.  Crazy how my story about my journey offends so many that none of what I posted was even addressed in your response.  

If this is supposed to be a story about your journey, then why would you include "Prove me wrong" in the title of the post and as the way to end your post?

What is there to prove wrong about your story/journey? 

Its unnecessarily confrontational to ask people to prove you wrong about thoughts that worked for you and helped you improve.

 

Also, a story about your specific swing and your swing thoughts should be your own topic in the Member Swings section

[Righty to Lefty]

1 minute ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Dude, Why are you such an A-hole? I'm just telling you there are millions of ways to express your ideas without being so confrontational. 

I'm just saying you should drop the "prove me wrong" thing. It makes you sound like a jackass. BTW - I read nearly every new post. You putting "prove me wrong on there is just plain stupid. 

Here you go:

Where did I confront you in my response?  I have had my responses and experiences called "complete bullshit" and no one batted an eye. Maybe you read every post but others don't unless it catches their eye.  I am trying to raise a different way to think about the game that worked for me.  I don't mind the backlash because remember going through this process and how much I ignored all the answers that were sitting right there in front of my face.  I put up my swings of me going through this process and showing exactly what I am speaking about. I love how it is so glossed over that I play to a single digit handicap right and left handed and that is something that I can say that 99.9% of golfers have never done including tour pros. I have never had a golf coach and so I am very detailed about how I got to this point in my golf life.  You can chose to do what you can with the information but I think about the game different because I have a perspective that very few have.  I am a high speed player left handed and an average speed player right handed and the game is very different for me in that regard to how I got to a 5  handicap right and lefty.  Best of luck to all on your golf journey.  R to L. 

[ChetlovesMer]

I'm saying calling a series of posts "Prove me wrong" is silly and confrontational. You should drop it. 

If you are trying to help people get better at golf there are better ways to do it. 

Here's a thought, go read the other folks posts who are actually asking for help. Then impart some of your awesome knowledge (did I hear someplace that you play a single digit handicap from the right and the left???.... I thought maybe I read that someplace.) on the people who are asking for help. 

Your "Prove me wrong" series isn't insightful. It isn't filled with interesting hypotheses. It's just you coming off like an A-hole. You just say something that can't be proven or disproven, that is not profound and then you whine like a schoolgirl ranting about how nobody bows down to the awesomeness of your self-taught lefty, righty amazingness. 

You might be a great golfer, you might even be a nice person. I'm trying to help you when I say drop the "Prove me wrong" part in your posts. You just come off like an A-hole. 

Like I said, if you are truly here to help people because you've learned so much from your golf journey. Then would you rather have somebody read what you right because they are interested in what you are saying so they click on the post that has an interesting title. Or are you just looking for people to read your posts to try to "Prove you wrong" because your posts have titles that make you sound like a jackass and they just want to shout you down. 

So, again. I'm giving you advice. Drop the "prove me wrong" thing... unless of course your goal is to argue with and troll people, in which case you are doing a great job. 

[iacas]

The most important thing in golf could be:

• Impact
• Getting the ball in the hole in the fewest number of strokes possible
• Having fun
• Getting some good exercise
• Taking out some frustration by hitting 100 drivers on the range as hard as you can
• Getting away from the wife for a few hours
• Winning
• Sealing a business deal

What is "most important" to anyone varies by person. "Importance" in the sense that it's used in this topic is an opinion, so you can't be proven "wrong," and any of the above or more could be "right" for any one person.

But… this isn't what the topic is about. You're being needlessly confrontational when trying to share your "journey"? With a clickbait title?

Dude, that's not how you achieve your goals, assuming your goals are at all positive.

1 hour ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I expect all of these shots to fly straight because I am intending to hit the shot with a square club face to the swing arc.

The clubface does not stay square to the swing arc in any good full swing.

1 hour ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Here are my swings going through this process (Right Clicking on the videos and opening them in a different window should allow them to be seen):

That doesn't work that way. Use YouTube, not Facebook. Your Facebook videos aren't even public; they're private or visible to friends only.

1 hour ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Here we go!! PROVE ME WRONG !!

Uhhhhhh… about what?

Geometrically, I can easily prove that you're wrong about the clubface being square to the arc. That one is easy, and I've done it already.

You're a 5.5 index. I'm glad you've improved to that level, and I'm glad you find pride in having done so… but I've taught a few hundred people who would give you a shot a side and still beat you, and had you sought instruction, you might be scratch, or a +2 by now. PROVE ME WRONG! 😛

56 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Where did I confront you in my response?

The all-caps "PROVE ME WRONG" might be a start?

34 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I have had my responses and experiences called "complete bullshit" and no one batted an eye.

Maybe because I was making an accurate statement, calling a spade a spade? Why would you expect that to cause someone to bat an eye?

34 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I am trying to raise a different way to think about the game that worked for me.

This isn't the way to do it.

40 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I'm saying calling a series of posts "Prove me wrong" is silly and confrontational. You should drop it.

Good advice. Please take it, @Righty to Lefty.

40 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Your "Prove me wrong" series isn't insightful. It isn't filled with interesting hypotheses. It's just you coming off like an A-hole. You just say something that can't be proven or disproven, that is not profound and then you whine like a schoolgirl ranting about how nobody bows down to the awesomeness of your self-taught lefty, righty amazingness. 

That's not an inaccurate summary…

40 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Like I said, if you are truly here to help people because you've learned so much from your golf journey. Then would you rather have somebody read what you right because they are interested in what you are saying so they click on the post that has an interesting title. Or are you just looking for people to read your posts to try to "Prove you wrong" because your posts have titles that make you sound like a jackass and they just want to shout you down. 

So, again. I'm giving you advice. Drop the "prove me wrong" thing... unless of course your goal is to argue with and troll people, in which case you are doing a great job. 

Just quoting again in case it leads to him reading this advice again.

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I am a high speed player left handed and an average speed player right handed and the game is very different for me in that regard to how I got to a 5  handicap right and lefty.  Best of luck to all on your golf journey.

You can swing 130 mph lefty and you can play to a low single digit handicap from either side. Here's a thought for you:

You are more athletically gifted than 95% of golfers out there. Your personal experiences differ from most others and maybe, just a little, your trials and tribulations don't apply to everyone.

Stop thinking your personal experiences in golf apply to other people. It's a bit like Shaq wondering why I can't dunk.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Here are my swings going through this process (Right Clicking on the videos and opening them in a different window should allow them to be seen): 

7 Iron I set the club on the ground at my predicted low point and strike the shot nicely.  It flew very straight and was struck pure so this ball is not back in my stance even though it appears that way from this angle. 

https://www.facebook.com/adrian.jones.7921975/videos/10161019253165627/

5 wood face on. 

https://www.facebook.com/adrian.jones.7921975/videos/10161019277960627/

Buddy, c'mon now, this is not just the camera angle.

I like your swing overall - it's nice, and I can see how you're a 5.5 - but you're fooling yourself (and nobody here) by blaming the camera angle on the appearance of the ball being well back in your stance.

No, if your feet are anything close to square/parallel to your target line, the ball is well back in your stance, and your low point is well back in your stance.

Playing golf like that is going to put a ceiling on how good you can actually be, or require other types of compensations to try to get the ball up in the air to an ideal height.

5 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

https://www.facebook.com/adrian.jones.7921975/videos/10160554558735627/
https://www.facebook.com/adrian.jones.7921975/videos/10160554767100627/

These don't work (the last two links).

[Righty to Lefty]

Swings added to a zip file so that the links aren't needed.   

 

Adrian Swings.zip

Edited November 7, 2018 by Righty to Lefty
Added a video

[Righty to Lefty]

My apologies to the group as it was never my intention to be viewed as a troll to the group so for that I apologize.  I like this forum more than anyone else's because you can really dig into the understanding of the game and there are a lot of educated golfers on this forum. I am just like everyone else on here in that i am looking for continued and sustained improvement in this game that we all love so much.  I feel that the change to the name of the topic was justified and if any of you felt that I was confrontational towards you then I apologize.  I will continue to post "my journey" topics as I feel that I can positively contribute to this forum.  My experience is my own and take from it what you can even if it is just one part that gives you  and "ah ha" moment as that is exactly what I did to get to where I am in my golf life. 

I started off right handed as you can see by my avatar and injury after injury wrecked by body and I thought that I was never going to play the game ever again. The frustration of having a fully paid for unlimited golf membership and being relegated to watching everyone else play....that happened to me twice...had me on the verge of quitting the game. I then made a decision that I was going to play golf left handed but I was determined to not take 6 years to break 90 so I took in all the information that I could and deciphered all of the information that was of use to me and that is why the particular videos that I posted above are close to my heart. I watched them over and over until I truly understood what they meant and then I got to work...left handed.  The Pro and my golf buddy said that they would never forget day that I changed to lefty.  I don't think I hit a ball solid for a couple days but there was one thing that I noticed and that was that I had a way more swing speed.  The only club that I could hit with accuracy early on was driver believe it or not.  This would create some crazy funny stories on the course where I would drive a ball 330 yards into a green side bunker then make a double bogey!  As I gained coordination and some touch with took a few months I could feel things changing.  I could now apply what all of what my mind had processed through studying and watching others.  I broke 90 within 6 months and within one year I shot my best score of 1 over.  That being said I still putt right handed...there was no way I was going to go through that stress ever again !! 

My journey has been much much different than most anyone else so I completely understand why the things that helped me seem unorthodox.  I found along the way that if you really are okay with making yourself feel uncomfortable and think outside of the box a bit that sustained improvement can be found even when you don't think you will get any better.  I am extremely passionate about all aspects of the game from the athletic side ( Excercise Science major) to the club design side (Electronic Engineering major). I also feel that I have quite a bit to contribute to the forum in that regard also because I have spent so many hours working on my own clubs at a much deeper level than just shaft, grip, and club head that I will love to share.  

Once again I apologize to all that felt that I was trolling them and I look forward to pressing onward from here with contributing in a positive light to the forum. 

[Righty to Lefty]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

Buddy, c'mon now, this is not just the camera angle.

I like your swing overall - it's nice, and I can see how you're a 5.5 - but you're fooling yourself (and nobody here) by blaming the camera angle on the appearance of the ball being well back in your stance.

No, if your feet are anything close to square/parallel to your target line, the ball is well back in your stance, and your low point is well back in your stance.

Playing golf like that is going to put a ceiling on how good you can actually be, or require other types of compensations to try to get the ball up in the air to an ideal height.

These don't work (the last two links).

I like how you did those lines as it really helps me see that what I am feeling that I am doing is what I am actually doing.  I prefer to have my low point in front of the ball at address and then keep it there and not move (or that is my intention at least.)  My thought is to get stacked over that low point and stay there. In the Iron shot you ca see me trying to find the low point and then I place the club on the ground where I believe it to be before I addressed the ball.  That is almost exactly where your line is. I felt like I have to have my ball position back of center because I don't intend to keep my low point right over that spot. Even with the wood being hit  off of a tee my thought is still the same but it is an "air divot" instead!  Am I making sense?  I have never seen my swing frozen like this post impact before. I made the adjustments because when I moved the ball further forward I just couldn't find impact inline with how I wanted to swing the club.  I put another video up of a 5 iron that I think is from a better angle so I'd be interested to see where that ball position is also.  

[boogielicious]

6 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Swings added to a zip file so that the links aren't needed.   

 

Adrian Swings.zip

 

It is better if you upload the videos to Youtube and then copy the link into your post. This embeds the video. I usually set the video to unlisted.

You could also start a My Swing thread and keep posting progress.

[iacas]

9 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Swings added to a zip file so that the links aren't needed.

Adrian Swings.zip

Please follow Scott's advice and upload them to YouTube. Then… https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I will continue to post "my journey" topics as I feel that I can positively contribute to this forum.

I recommend a different tactic.

• Continue on with THIS topic, because it's about your "journey" and thus should cover everything.
• Start a "Member Swing" topic for the video of your swings, your practice, and discussions about your swing specifically.
• Post in existing topics when you have something you think is "new" - it's probably been covered here before.

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

My journey has been much much different than most anyone else so I completely understand why the things that helped me seem unorthodox.

That one I don't understand.

Your journey wasn't really all that different, and the things you posted aren't "unorthodox."

8 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I found along the way that if you really are okay with making yourself feel uncomfortable and think outside of the box a bit that sustained improvement can be found even when you don't think you will get any better.

People often stop doing something because it feels "weird" or "different." These are the people who often don't succeed.

6 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

I like how you did those lines as it really helps me see that what I am feeling that I am doing is what I am actually doing. I prefer to have my low point in front of the ball at address and then keep it there and not move (or that is my intention at least.)  My thought is to get stacked over that low point and stay there. In the Iron shot you ca see me trying to find the low point and then I place the club on the ground where I believe it to be before I addressed the ball.  That is almost exactly where your line is. I felt like I have to have my ball position back of center because I don't intend to keep my low point right over that spot. Even with the wood being hit  off of a tee my thought is still the same but it is an "air divot" instead!  Am I making sense? I have never seen my swing frozen like this post impact before. I made the adjustments because when I moved the ball further forward I just couldn't find impact inline with how I wanted to swing the club.  I put another video up of a 5 iron that I think is from a better angle so I'd be interested to see where that ball position is also.

The ball position is back in that video too.

IMO the next step in your journey should be to play with a more correct ball position. You might struggle to get better than a 5.5 with the ball position that far back. You're not launching the ball high enough - a 5W should not launch at 6.7° or 2200 RPM of spin.

So yes, you're accomplishing what you're trying to do, but what you're trying to do is not what's best.

Learn to move the low point forward (typically under your front shoulder) with the ball forward.

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

It is better if you upload the videos to Youtube and then copy the link into your post. This embeds the video. I usually set the video to unlisted.

Yes, do this.

I'll delete your .zip file at some point.

[Righty to Lefty]

On 11/7/2018 at 5:18 PM, iacas said:

Ball position is back in that video too.

IMO the next step in your journey should be to play with a more correct ball position. You might struggle to get better than a 5.5 with the ball position that far back. You're not launching the ball high enough - a 5W should not launch at 6.7° or 2200 RPM of spin.

 

The reason why I have the ball position back like I do is because my intention is to set my low point in front of the ball and then keep it there.  That fairway wood shot is not indicative of my typical ball flight in that I am not a low ball hitter at all and I actually hit moon balls but the 5 woods was a demo club and is nowhere close to a club that I would actually play but in Iraq you do what you can. My clubs are heavily toe biased and so even though I feel like I am hitting a draw my ball flight is very straight.  I used to have the ball more forward and simply couldn't find control or leverage with any club and so moved it back and noted the results.  Once I found the proper leverage I then made sure that the ball flight was what I expected it to be. My stock shot is very high and then I make club face adjustments to play different trajectories and plane adjustments to draw or fade the ball.  

This technique really helped me with the driver as I used to just rip balls exit stage right (straight pulls) because the ball just wasn't in the right place in relation to my body's build to hit the ball with leverage. I went from taking huge body shaking divots to shallow to no divot at all. I guess what I am saying is that I am working with what I have and making adjustments along the way as my body changes from losing 70 pounds so far.  I actually used to have the ball back further!!