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@iacas is a featured guest on the newest AMG video release talking about the top swing faults instructors see from using GEARS. The first one we caught on my first GEARS lesson. I still work on that. Worth a watch.

The golf world lost one of the greats last weekend. By great, I am not talking about fame or talent, but simply love of the game. He wasn’t very fond of the rules though, because he pretty much made his own. I am referring to my old man, Tom Knick. He lost his battle to cancer last Saturday, 1/3/2026. He battled several rounds of lung cancer over the years, but this time it spread and took him out at the age of 81. I remember following my dad and grandpa around Penn Terra GC as a young lad. Dad would let me hit my own ball, but would often pick it up and take it to where his ball was. He HATED slow play. He would get aggravated with his golf league partner for the last decade or so because he would clean his club after a shot before putting it back in his bag. Dad thought this took too much time. Patience was not one of his virtues. After retiring from GM in his early 50s, dad worked and played golf at Beechwood GC in Arcanum, OH almost exclusively. He was already retired at the age I am now. He also worked at the local hardware store in the winter. As I already mentioned, he played the game the way he thought it should be played. The last time I played with dad, my son was playing with us. Dad’s eyes were getting pretty bad. He would hit one down the middle of the fairway and think it was a bad shot. He would be pleasantly surprised when we showed him where his ball ended up. You can still enjoy a good shot even when you can’t see it I guess. My mom tasked me with going through his golf stuff. He had an old golf bag full of every club he ever owned up in their attic. It also had ancient golf balls in it. Memories came rushing back when I saw his old McGregor woods and irons, the clubs I used to take over to our community park during summer break and spent hours hitting balls back and forth. This is where I learned bad habits that inflict my swing to this very day. I loved it though. I don’t like to keep things for the sake of keeping things, but I just may need to hang on to these. Also in dad’s golf stash, I also found dozens of ball markers and probably 200 tees. In even found 2 metal golden tees. I doubt they’re real gold, I will keep one and give my son the other. Fools gold. In dad’s golf bag were his old Ping Zing 1 and 3 woods. He played these for many years. I think I will need to hang on to these as well. Golf is full of memories. If you still have your dad, uncle, best friend from high school or work that you played with over the years, take whatever opportunity you can find to play with them when it warms back up. You never know. It might be the last time.

Going to Florida for the usual February golf trip, and with our current weather, that date won't get here soon enough. Heading to Augusta GA for the Tuesday Master's practice round, will definitely get some golf in while I'm in the area for a few days. Hope to be able to catch up with @coachjimsc if he's around. Then it's back to Scotland first of July. Playing 7 new courses, can't wait for that. Then somewhere after that is the Rhode Island CC Member-Guest and then my normal October golf trip to Myrtle Beach.

Pinehurst in Mid May. Playing Tot Hill, Mid Pines, Pine Needles, and Southern Pines.

JPX ONE Driver - Mizuno Golf Official Website Discover the JPX ONE Driver - /jpxone/jpxone-driver-hero-mobile.webp /jpxone/jpxone-logo-white-lg.svg The World’s first NANOALLOY™ DRIVER... Mizuno is introducing new technology with their JPX One fairway woods and drivers. The new tech for golf but used tech for Mizuno since it is found in their baseball side of the business, is Nanoalloy. Nanoalloy is a microscopic polymer layer put on the face of their titanium driver. What this layer does is change the elasticity of the driver face and increases ball speed over a larger area of the clubface. Adding a bit more elasticity with this layer, they are conserving the golf balls energy from the impact. Due to USGA rules, this technology falls under their coating regulations. Which add a correction factor to the ball speed testing done for conforming golf clubs. This rule was introduced when Taylormade went to their carbon clubface. Which I didn't know existed. I am sure that center strikes are at the USGA limits like all other drivers. This has my interest. I am always, "window shopping", for new golf equipment 😉

These were almost all included on the list of Clarifications or revised Model Local Rules released just a few days ago. I'm pretty sure the first 3 are brand new MLRs (Moved/Wrong Place, Embedded Ball in someone else's pitch mark, Internal OB applies only to tee shot) that the PGA Tour is choosing to use. The 16.1 Rule (relief near a Putting Green) was revised allowed a Committee to give relief for more than just Immoveable Obstructions, microphone holes would be classed as GUR (a hole made by the maintenance staff). The replacement club rule was available before, the E-3 (Lift Clean and Place distance) could have been defined as "one scorecard" before, they're just a change in how the PGA choices. Here are the January 1 Clarifications and revised MLRs https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/clarifications-of-the-rules-of-golf.html#cp

3 Wood VS Driver: Is the accuracy worth the sacrificed distance? Have you ever had one of those days where your Driver is just not behaving? Luckily golfers have other options when their “Big Stick” is a little too crooked, the next closest being: a 3 wood. Look, 3 woods are...

Sounds like the Newport Cup, and my trip to Scotland with @jsgolfer. Its always good to make new golf friends!

A group I am joining is going to the R. T. Jones Trail in Alabama. Last week of March. We will be playing the RTJ courses near Birmingham and Huntsville. I am acquainted with one of the group. I will have 6 new friends, unless we get another 4, then it will be 10. 😉

Oh, @ConorHealy, maybe you don't know our history, I went with him to Scotland a couple years ago, and was invited on this trip as well. Sadly, I couldn't fit it into my budget this year, but I know he likes to travel.

I know one recent college grad who's trying the same thing. This guy was a Division III All-American, went on to play one year at Division I LSU, and is not working hard. He won the Gulf States Open, a pro event, and made it to the second stage of the Korn Ferry Tour School late in the fall. And didn't make the cut to get to the final stage. I won't talk about swing or play stuff, but I believe there are a couple of things that are essential. Obviously, talent, and drive, or work ethic. I can't tell you how to do it, but you HAVE to get through it. Golf is going to be your life, and it takes lots of work. Two more things that are really critical. You'll need the facility to be able to practice. My young friend stayed in Baton Rouge, as a past player on the team he can still use the LSU practice facilities. And money. Its unlikely you'll be able to work a full-time job and practice the way you will need to. You'll probably need backing, from a parent, from a consortium of friends or club members., something to support you. Good luck, its not an easy path, but anything is possible. Another young man from our area, Mike Brennan, just won for the first time on the "big" PGA Tour.

6 rules changes the PGA Tour is enacting in 2026 (and what triggered them) The PGA Tour shared several rules changes with its players on Tuesday. Here's what you need to know about why the rules have been modified.

He was saying that it doesn't have an audience now… 🙂

When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).

I need to drop a couple of stone. 🙂 😛 Yep. Yeah, but in the end, it feels more athletic, like you're actually using your legs, yeah? As you know… we use the best available info we have. Like others, I was fooled a little by 2D images for awhile (moving or still). Unlike others, I've learned and grown and moved on since then, while they're still looking at their images (often from lousy camera angles).

That was a good watch. When I started working on pelvis in the backswing. I thought, this sounds contradictory to those leg straightening threads on the site. Erik has already done a correction. Then the last lesson we went more down the route of feeling the right knee gains flex. It doesn’t, but the feeling keeps my knee position in a good range. Also, I just realized how much extra work my right hip needed to do to stabilize the body with the proper weight shift. Those glute and hip stabilizers got worked. 🤣 I wish this evolution in the golf instruction happened 20 years ago! 😭

I am pretty familiar with equipment and I have never heard of Par Ace Tour Blades. If they are old their lofts might be weak, which would cause the perceived distance loss. A few years ago I had a friend upgrade his old irons to modern equipment and his PW loft was 6* stronger than his old clubs. May not be the case, but just a thought. I think you might have better luck being fitted, or spending time on a launch monitor comparing these 4 irons. Then you can identify the distance gap between irons. You may find the ones you hit longer are really close together at the top of the bag. Good luck!

4-ball better ball is the classic and for good reason. If you want to change things up a bit you could do a 2v2 scramble. Wolf is also a good game for 4 people. If you're feeling aggressive on the gambling, you can play a game where you get points on each hole. You calculate the points by sticking the scores you both get together to make a 2 digit number. If the better score is par or better then that number goes first. If it's bogey or higher then the worse score is first. So if you're playing a par 4 let's say and your partner makes 7 and you have a 5 foot putt for a par, that's the difference between 47 and 75. Then you have like 10c per point (or $100 per point - whatever floats your boat).

Regardless, I don't like the heavy balls. They often have people doing something different. You have to REALLY accelerate to double-hit it. Much bigger fan of taking a fast, long backswing and… hitting the ball five feet. Things like that. I watched the video. Nothing all that new. Too much focus on the head movement, IMO. Tons of great putters have some head movement.

Generally not at all a fan of heavy balls. I haven’t watched the video so maybe it is only a tiny bit heavier or something but the heavy balls I’ve used encourage acceleration or they go almost nowhere.

I know this is somewhat back from the dead, but I think it's a good thread and it seems like the right place to post this. I saw a video on youtube today of James Nicholas working on his putting with Darrell Kestner. Video here: At 13:31 he produces a heavy weight ball and says "if your follow through is too long you'll double hit it". It seems to me like a pretty good way to train out the instinct to reaccelerate the putter after impact, but my google fu seems to be weak today. Does anyone know where to get one?

For someone with a very consistent swing speed and ball strike, upgrades may improve performance. For everyday golfers, probably not. I'm a rather odd player. I usually get best performance from basic pro or tour heads, but with lighter stock shaft from the model's standard driver set up. (Yes, current EXS is an exception.) When I get a full driver fitting, I usually try a couple of modest upgrade (not super magic) shafts. Most of the time upgrade gives a couple of extra yards, or 10 yards less. Remember this about stock shafts: They are matched to a particular driver model to fit the type of player likely to adopt that model. Also, most OEMs offer a variety of stock shafts in their drivers. Test for which one works best. And, the final decider...

I don't know what to tell you. You can't test wedges with range balls, and you have a LOT more info to gather before you can begin to really even test anything else, either.

Get more comfortable with being uncomfortable. If you don’t like practicing then give up now. You don’t have the passion to become a pro. Unless that mentality changes you won’t do well under stressful situations. Call the PGA Tour and ask. They probably have resources available.

I’d say don’t just switch brands look at the specs of your wedge first. A lower bounce or slightly stronger loft on a Betti or Vokey could fix the high launch without changing your feel. Testing a few in a fitting session is the safest way.

My advice: soak up all the advice you can, especially on training, equipment, and the mental game. Sharing your own experiences helps too. For turning pro, the key is patience and steady improvement small gains add up.

Just like the 2022, 2021, 2020, 2023, 2024, and 2025 topics, we're doing it again in 2026! Once again, I'd like to birdie every hole at Whispering Woods in 2026 (and maybe every numbered hole on other courses). I'd like you to join me on this quest. This year's spreadsheet is below: 2026 TST Birdie Challenge - Google Sheets Please click through, add your name, home course, and location, and when you make a score on the holes as you play them, update your line in the spreadsheet with your ringer score, basically. The idea is to score a birdie or better on each hole on the course this year. If you're above a certain handicap and would like to make it a par challenge, go for it! Just add that note to the Notes column. Please leave the formatting as is. And note that you only write down one score - if you birdie a hole three times, you aren't writing down -3. It's just your best individual score for each hole. We can all cheer each other on and see where this takes us! If you truly play a TON of different courses, then follow these two guidelines: If you just play a lot of golf, but still get 20 or 25 (or more) rounds in on one course, consider making that your home course and just doing the birdie challenge there. If you truly play only 20-40 rounds per year, and never more than a handful at the same course, consider trying to birdie holes numbered 1 to 18 across all of your courses. Or even doing it twice. Yeah, some hole #17s will be easier birdies than others, but that's why you might do it twice.

anymore?

Birdied last 2 holes today for 44/36 (Par 37 on front, 35 on back). Nearly Eagled #17--had a sidehill 30 ft putt, breaking right to left. Aimed about 8 ft above hole, ball broke and stopped about an inch from going in.

I have a couple of trips planned, although golf was a secondary component in each. In February we're going to visit some friends near Naples, so Mary Anne and I have added on a few days to stay and play at Streamsong. Then In March we're going to Hawaii (again), and will almost certainly get in a few rounds there.

My next golf trip will probably be a short one, but I’m really looking forward to it. I’m thinking of staying relatively close, picking a spot with a few solid courses and making a long weekend out of it. For me, the best golf trips are about good courses, relaxed vibes, and time away with friends.

First going to spain for a long weekend in March probably going to play La Quinta, Los Arqueros and Fina Cortesin, and first week in May will compete in the Crawsnest Tassie at Carnoustie golf links, that will be a full week of golf golf golf and more golf. Did play it last year for the first time and it is awesome.

These sound like great memories. Thanks for sharing with us.

Hey, you looped me in, I had to comment in some way. Anyone want to guess how many times I'll get asked "Do I get relief, it looks like I'm in a pitch mark?", even when that MLR isn't in effect?

Which is why I added… 😛

I would like to amend my original comment on the new Maxfli irons. Yes, $800 for forged irons is a pretty good price and they do feel good BUT...I have since found out that $800 is only for off the shelf, standard issue clubs with standard lengths, lofts, lies and shafts. Any change made from stock results in huge up-charges so that the final price ends up pretty much the same as similar forged irons from any of the major manufacturers.

Day 33 (4 Jan 26) - a little backyard work with 8i, 9i and Pw using Divot Bd, hard foam balls. Goal - work on setup (a bit of the stack and tilt pre-load on lead foot), consistent ball first contact (divot bd to reflect low point contact) and predictable shot shape. Setup had the Divot Bd 32yds from 12’ fence gate and I could get up to 64yds before the pompous grass in the yard behind. The gate served as the “window” for the shot shapes (really was just working on more of a baby draw)…really helps when I have a great target point. Was a good focused session on making solid swings…

Off to a descent start, 2 birdies today, so I'm -2 for now.

That is cool! I got to play there about 15+ years ago. It was a good time. I just remember it being very windy (20+ mph winds). It was fun to then see the pro's play the same course in about a month.

Thanks but honestly… I don't know any other way. I don't mind being wrong so long as I know where to go from there. I don't like being wrong — I'd love to get things right (which is different than "being right"). I recommend grabbing a furniture slider or a paper plate or something, and doing something like this: First, make a swing where you let your trail foot swing out as you turn, then twist that foot back in. From DL and FO, it'll look like this: Then, during a regular backswing, try to twist your foot in slightly (demonstrated in the left image): You'll notice a crease along the trail side of your hip, your pelvis will "fold" into that thigh (internal rotation of the hip joint), and your "bits" will be squished a little between your pelvis and your thigh. Ben Hogan said once: "At the top of the back swing the groin muscle on the inside of your rt [sic] leg near your right nut will tighten," Hogan wrote. "This subtle feeling of tightness there tells you that you have made the correct move back from the ball." I don't know about that, but you will probably feel something down around that area.

The first issue Erik spoke about is something we worked on for my swing during both GEARS sessions. GEARS was showing my pelvis center moving towards the ball during the back swing. I wasn’t the 4” guy though! This forced me to correct on the downswing to give myself space. My hip rotation was to high as well. We corrected it by first getting the weight off my heels in my stance and getting my posture correct. Then the feel was shifting back into my right hip at a 45 degree angle. This kept my pelvis center from moving towards the ball at the start of the backswing. I also didn’t sway back as much as I felt I did because of the angle I was shifting. Feel Ain’t Real. The cool thing about GEARS is as you work on something you can see the exact (Real) change happening. On video, it is much harder to spot this issue because of the 2D nature of filming. But I know what to look for now. Sadly, I was hurt all last year and most of this year so I really haven’t been able to work on it much. I did do a lot of backswing work though.

While I have practiced a decent amount in the past 6-7 weeks, once I figured I wouldn't maintain the rules of the challenge I stopped posting 😞 Anyway, I'm back and I think I'll be able to maintain! Let's see. Day 1, 12/30/25. 10 balls with 6-iron, another 10 with a 9-iron, and a few chips with the UW and 54. All off a mat, into a net, indoors, with real golf balls. The will swing focus was on controlling the length of the backswing and doing so slowly.

I had a few tweeks in the bag. I took out my Mizuno pro FliHi 3 iron replaced it with a Titleist GT2 7 Wood. what a change that is, so easy to hit, it goes so high without it ballooning on me. I couldn't get rid of my callaway woods ( Rogue ST Max LS ) but changed the shafts to Diamana BB 63 stiff for the driver and 73 stiff for the 3 wood. Than i got myself a new putter Odyssey S2S jailbird yes i joined the centershaft family

It should feel uncomfortable. It's new. Different.

Good for you for learning and admitting it-I think you and I both still let some higher handicappers do a little bit because they have other things to worry about first. But trail knee flex I would not have even imagined pros kept as consistent as your graphs show.-Surprising! Good for you.

This year is the best I’ve done - 16 of the 18 holes birdied. Funny thing the two remaining - one is one of the shortest and “easiest” of par 4’s and the other is second hardest hole on the back, also a par 4. Still have an opportunity or two to maybe make it…either way it’s been a solid year of playing.

I guess I'll stay at -16 for this year's challenge. I never birdied holes 7, 13 (the 2 hardest holes) in 2025. Also had a couple Eagle putts on the par 5's, but didn't convert either time. Looking forward to 2026, though!

Got a little work in today. A small sample of today's session. 川村 洋介 Kawamura (@kawamura28) • Instagram reel 3,703 Likes, 51 Comments - 川村 洋介 Kawamura (@kawamura28) on Instagram: "Thanks for looking at my posts every...

Time-linked (9:23): They say that "none of their players externally rotate in the downswing." Specifically, Mike Granato says "none of those five players or any of the other Tour winners we have data on externally rotate their trail shoulders in the downswing. We've yet to find a single one who does." They go on to say it's "not something we recommend." So finally, how is Mike Granato defining "in the downswing"? None of the lines in the Kwon graph show the player going more external (absolute) than their most external (absolute) point in the backswing. None of the lines in the Kwon graph end the downswing (BI) more external (absolute) than at the top of the backswing (TB). This graph begs to differ: "Rotation" (internal or external) here is defined as: the internal or external rotation is the axial movement of the upper arm compared to the thorax plane. This is a shoulder movement. I tried to discuss this more in Golf Biomechanists, but a bigger discussion is occurring here: Golf Teaching Professionals | Facebook The purpose of the group is to host discussions about the golf teaching industry. In my mind there is no better way for someone to improve at the game than with excellent coaching, so I want to help... I'll post a few relevant or good quotes. Tyler Ferrell: "Here are graphs from a Golf Biodynamics system (Dr. Rob Neal) and a graph from AMM/TPI 3D. Both are of Grant Waite captured at different times. One is a 6 iron and one is a driver. Both systems show an external rotation of the trail shoulder during transition (keep in mind that they define top of swing differently, so the timing is different). The owners of both of these data sets claimed that these are typical patterns of the pros that they’ve collected. Not all externally rotate significantly, some flat line before moving into internal rotation, but only steeper arm motion golfers demonstrated internal rotation during the initial transition. … Here’s also a data set from Dr. Kwon’s database of 85 elite golfers, showing external rotation in transition as well." Tyler (cont.): "Collectively, we have 3 other systems showing external rotation in transition (with actual data) as opposed to just a verbal description assuring us that all golfers go into internal rotation. Perhaps when Mike said in the video that they haven’t measured everyone, what might be more accurate is stating that systems can measure things differently and maybe our data is different than some other systems." Tyler (cont.): "I’ve seen many wrist/forearm graphs and almost every tour golfer I’ve seen pronates in transition. Here’s a graph of Grant Waite and Henrik Stenson showing how the trail arm pronates (not supinates) during transition. This too is the normal pattern of the data that I’ve seen related to arm motion during transition. Because supination is relative to the elbow, and influenced by the shoulder movements, I typically saw golfers with supination having much steeper swings than those who had pronation. Dr. Rob Neal said his data showed the same pattern." Jon Sinclair: "I will have you look at Dr. Kwon’s Measurements. I have been there and studied in detail his care and techniques on measurements. His measurement on this is as good as it gets from all I have witnessed so far. Even AMM is showing motion that is matching his data so there is two systems saying elite players indeed do externally rotate their trail shoulder on the downswing. I should have added GBD as the 3rd system saying this. They state that no players they have measured externally rotates in the downswing. Since the Gears program is not reporting this how was it being measured?. It is possible they have written their own calculations. I do not know." Jon Sinclair (another comment): "Actually as it turns out GEARS does not report this in their software. If it is being measured it must be a calculation that AMG is doing on their own." Michael Neff (GEARS founder): "GEARS does NOT REPORT shoulder range of motion. The AMG boys are using thier own calculations on this specific segment. … 1. GEARS does not report shoulder rotation in our user interface BUT our clients can export data and get it. 2. We use Phil Cheetham’s algorithm for our thorax and pelvis stuff and it is GLOBAL. 3. Most tour players go external on the backswing and minimal if any on the downswing (depending on your reference frame). 4. It's plausible lowering kills external and the wrist can bend without external. 5. Measuring the shoulder is very hard because of the challenge with the scapula, muscle and facia. Especially when the elbow gets over the shoulder. 5. Most agree thay there is minimal external if any on the downswing and that teaching excessive external can really cause problem. Which is really the main story they are trying to say." Presented for discussion.