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Posted

I've seen these shots being done on TV and would love to learn how to do them, at my course it would be a great shot to use...

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Posted

It is really a chip shot.  You have to make good contact, ball first and create a lot of spin.  I can do it with my 58 wedge with the ball back by my right foot or even behind it.  It will bounce a couple of times and check up.  It is not always reliable though.  Chipping with a putting motion or a standard pitch is more predictable for me.

Scott

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Posted
I use my lob wedge with the ball a little back of center. More weight on forward leg (left leg for right hander) and keep my lower body fairly quiet through the shot. I lean the shaft forward (decrease loft) and make sure I pinch the ball off the turf with a descending blow. Accelerate through the shot. Don't be afraid to take a little divot but it shouldn't be a beaver pelt. I usually only take a 1/2 backswing. I abbreviate my follow through and hold my wrists from breaking. I don't hinge my wrists much. There's some but not like a full swing. I keep my grooves clean and it's mandatory to use a soft cover ball if you want some good bite. But you can make a Rock Flite check up somewhat too. This is a great shot since it's much straighter shot than a pitch. You need some green to work with. You need to get a feel for how hard to swing for various distances. If you watch a video (you should), look at what their body is doing. It's mostly a shot using the arms. No need for weight shift, much shoulder turn etc. Once you get it down, it's a pretty reliable shot.

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Posted
Too late to edit. I was thinking about the shot and you will definitely slide your hips, especially on the longer shots.

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Posted

Too late to edit.

I was thinking about the shot and you will definitely slide your hips, especially on the longer shots.


On a chip or a pitch? I vote no on "sliding your hips."

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Posted
Perfect contact, and much more speed in your swing than you're going to feel comfortable with..... Skilled players make it look easy because they're skilled players. ;-)

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Posted

Saw a TV golf teacher discuss this and he said that a slightly closed club face will 'grip' the ball more and provide more ball spin than an open face.  I often get lots of side spin on chips and the ball hits the green and zips off either left or right, then checks up and stops.

Speakers broken on laptop so no comment on video.  He may say the same. .


Posted
Perfect contact, and much more speed in your swing than you're going to feel comfortable with.....

Skilled players make it look easy because they're skilled players.


This.

So no hip slide with a high lofted club hands stay ahead with ball back in stance?

It's a start. You would have to still have a 'poppy' (acceleration) no wrist release move through the ball to get any appreciable spin. I personally don't have confidence to accelerate enough to try. It's hard to not get flippy. Thin shots will scurry across and off the green.

Vishal S.

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Posted

It often depends on the slope of the green. When the green is sloped uphill towards the player along with an uphill approach, the ball should check up quickly.

As mentioned above, it is a skilled manner to execute proper to accomplish results on a regular basis.

It is a fun method to practice and use on occasion.

Club Rat

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Posted

If you have 11 minutes of your life and can listen to Joe Mayo for that period of time, you have an insatiable desire to learn... :-D

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Posted
@ Desmond Yes I do the other day I hit balls for 4 hrs working on S & T. Our practice area only good for 130 yards so I practice a lot of 100 to chipping shots. Yesterday we had to play our back nine only because they punched the front. I usually score 46-50 on the back,I did a 44-43. The practice helped with all my clubs.
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Posted

@Mr. Desmond 's video is exactly the one I was about to post after I read the OP. Despite being a bit of a long video to watch it is very informative. It's not a shot I play on the course yet though for two reasons:

  1. I don't practice enough short game to have the confidence in the shot nor do I have any feel for distance with it
  2. I often am not playing a urethane covered ball than will check up as I'd want. I am guilty of just playing whatever balls I find :8)

Henry

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Posted

Just wanted to add one other thought.

Distance is a key to determine when to attempt his type of shot, along with the slope of the green.

Also, when green slopes away (downhill) the ball will roll out more.

An example when not to attempt would be less than 20 feet or greater than 35 yards to the pin.

20 feet to 35 yards is a comfortable distance to play.

Reason being, the shot must be hit with aggressiveness.

Level or uphill play to a level or green which slope towards the player is favorable.

Cub Rat

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

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Posted

If you have 11 minutes of your life and can listen to Joe Mayo for that period of time, you have an insatiable desire to learn...

Hit it a groove low, and zip the hands through to the left.

Nuthin' to it! ;-)

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Posted

Hit it a groove low, and zip the hands through to the left.

Nuthin' to it!

I do find when I slightly thin a pitch it is going to spin a lot more than if I catch it normal. Issue is, when you don't plan for it, you end up flying the ball past the hole and it takes a BIG hop forward and stops. Usually that one hop can leave you a pretty good distance away.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
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    • But, now you have an idea. The Shotgun Start podcast has nicknames for a lot of players. The Unofficial Shotgun Start Nickname Encyclopedia - Google Sheets
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    • In the 1970s and 1980s, Dean Knuth, who became known as the "Pope of Slope," created the handicap system as well as the course rating system. He consulted with the USGA through 2002, but hasn't really had a hand in the handicapping since then, and was not involved in the WHS. Suffice to say, he does not like the WHS, and he wrote an article expressing why:  https://www.popeofslope.com/world-handicap-system.html. The problem? His article… well, it's bad. Here is a brief (for me!) exploration of that article. Part 1 includes the bulk of his point, right up until the section labeled "The Par Pitfall," here: The handicapping system has seen almost no changes in the U.S. It's the rest of the world where they've seen the biggest changes. In the U.S., ESC was replaced by NDB, we have soft and hard caps, and we use 8/20 instead of 10/20 at 96%. Those are the only real changes. Dean will spend most of the rest of the time talking about par, but — and this cannot be stressed enough — the par is irrelevant. Its role in determining your playing or course handicap does three things only: It makes the score you have to shoot to "play to your handicap" make a lot more sense. It "bakes in" the changes players should have made but rarely did when playing from different tees. Through NDB, it defines the holes on which you can take a triple (or which you can take a gross bogey if you're on the + side of scratch). The calculation of your differential at the end is completely unaffected and does not involve par. Dean will spend a good amount of the time in this article talking about how par is "less precise" than the rating and slope, but he seems to miss the two points here: Par is an integer. If it helps him to think of it as 72.000000 or something, by all means, Dean… Par is used only to adjust another whole number: the strokes a player gets on the course. We don't give 10.4 strokes — a 10.4 index player might get 13, 10, 8, or whatever number of whole-number strokes.   The problem with this type of statement is that the "par handicap" could be "7" or "13" or "88" and except for affecting NDB, players competing against each other would have the same difference (except they'd still need to adjust for playing from different tees). Let's say a 10.4 and a 14.7 are playing a 71.5/127 course. Par is 72. (10.4 * 127/113) + 71.5 - 72 = 11.2 -> 11 strokes (14.7 * 127/113) + 71.5 - 72 = 16.0 -> 16 strokes -> this player gets 5 strokes Instead of 72, plug in 23 because it's your favorite number: (10.4 * 127/113) + 71.5 - 23 = 60.2 -> 60 strokes (14.7 * 127/113) + 71.5 - 23 = 65.0 -> 65 strokes -> this player gets 5 strokes They still get the strokes they deserve (5), but we've lost the meaning as players now get 60 strokes off a 10 handicap. Remove the course rating and… you're back at the same problem as we've had where players weren't doing the calculation properly, and we lose the first benefit of "playing to your handicap". An example of that, with a 12.3 index player playing on a 68.7/123 rated par 72 course. Properly: (12.3 * 123/113) + 68.7 - 72 = 10.1 -> 10 strokes Improperly: 12.3 * 123/113 = 13.4 -> 13 strokes If the player plays a "net even par" round of golf, he'll shoot 82 and 85. Here's why this makes sense: WHS: (82 - 68.7) * 113 / 123 = 12.2 differential Prior: (85 - 68.7) * 113 / 123 = 14.97 -> 15.0 differential The player "played to his handicap" with a net even par round in shooting the 82, which aligns with getting ten strokes, not 13. This makes way more sense and is in fact an improvement over the prior system for two of the three reasons listed above: It more closely aligns the index and the score you have to shoot to "shoot your handicap" It bakes in players playing from different tees.   Par is not a factor in determining the differential in the WHS system, only the playing handicap. The only way it affects the differential is that it can award a triple bogey on a few more holes (or a gross bogey max to a few + handicappers playing shorter tees) in determining NDB. You can completely ignore the WHS system of calculating your playing handicap and your differentials — the calculation of which does not use par - is going to be almost exactly the same (again, differing only when you tripled a hole on which you wouldn't have gotten NDB but now do because you didn't do the subtraction part of the WHS course/playing handicap calculation). Or maybe it was because of the other three reasons listed above. Which were the reasons given to me back in 2017 and 2018 when I talked with some of the people responsible for helping to create the WHS. If the ease of adoption by other countries and regions, then that's a fourth reason. But, I didn't really hear much about it prior to the WHS being instituted. A similar step was also required when players played from different tees, yet this was frequently forgotten. Players used to playing the blue tees would move up to the whites and expect to keep their 13 strokes, and be dismayed and sometimes even angered and argumentative that they would only get 10. This literally makes no sense. There's no more or less rounding than in previous versions. The output of "HI * Slope/113" typically produced a decimal number, the output of "HI * Slope/113 + CR - Par" also produces a decimal number, and the output of "Score * 113/Slope" (which is unchanged) also produces a decimal number. Each are rounded just as they were before. No, Dean is way off base here. 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So, which of these formulas incorporates BOTH the CR and the Slope in determining a player's course handicap: a. (HI * Slope/113) + CR - Par b. (HI * Slope/113) Clearly A incorporates "the most accurate measure of the relative difficulty" (as well as the measure of the relative difficulty). Dean's favored formula did NOT include "the most accurate measure of the relative difficulty for the scratch golfer". A scratch golfer under Dean's preferred method could shoot an even par round of 72 and see a differential that ranged from +2.7 (75.4/140) to 5.5 (66.3/118) or something. Under the WHS, if they shoot net par, they're going to end up with about a 0.0 differential. No. Again, you could subtract any integer from the Course Rating (which again the WHS ADDS to the calculation in course/playing handicap that the older system did not) and get the same relative course handicaps for all players. Using par just helps it make the most sense to actual golfers. It's an integer… as are the scores we shoot and the pars of the holes we play. The addition of the "CR - Par" has almost no effect on a player's differential. Again, the only affect it would have is when NDB is applied, because there may be a few holes where they'd get a stroke that they do not. And even then, it requires the player to card a triple on that specific hole, and be among their 8 out of 20 counting scores, AND even then if it happens once a round in ALL of the eight rounds, it's about 1 stroke on their index (probably a bit less given that most slopes are > 113). This has nothing to do with "jumping in" and everything to do with the foundational reasons for adding (CR - Par). Dean sees it as "adding par" when he would more accurately see it as adding the Course Rating! Small point of order: this was not shown to be accurate. The 96% applied to all 10 scores almost perfectly offset the dropping of two middle scores. Some players indexes went up a little. Some went down a little. The net change was almost exactly 0. Yes, that's how math works. The change makes MORE sense, again, as a player shooting net par under the WHS has basically "shot their handicap". Shoot below net par and your handicap will likely go down. Shoot above it and it may go up a little (less chance of this than shooting under lowering it, though, of course). So? Half of the players who play a 72.5/72-par course will see their Course Handicap one higher than they had before the system and half will not! Also and again, players who play a course rated 68.7 par-72 will all see their course handicaps drop several strokes. That's just math, and the boundaries of rounding. Dean chose a 0.5 marker, but the same math is true at any level, because the HI already has a decimal, and the Slope/113 multiplier also tends to produce decimals. So, someone who previously had a 10.5 to 10.9 index will still be an 11, while the 10.0s to 10.4s will go up to 11s. But on another course where the decimals work out to 0.3 and 0.2… the same math applies. And on a course where the decimals work out to 0.8… players half of the players will get an "extra" stroke and half will not. This is just rounding. It's always been a part of the WHS. The point at which rounding occurs might move slightly (depending on the course and index in question) for half of the situations, but if you have a 10.0 and an 11.5… or a 10.5 and an 12.0… half of the time the higher handicapper will get the "extra" stroke, and half the time the lower handicapper will get the "extra" stroke. This is just how rounding works. Handicaps in match play are almost entirely unaffected. A 13 playing a 10 might now be a 10 playing a 7, but the difference is still the same size. You're subtracting out a constant (CR - Par) from both players. The (HI * Slope/113) remains the same. This makes no sense and Dean has absolutely failed to provide any basis for this "less accurate" while ignoring that the WHS ADDS the CR to the course handicap calculation. It is easier. Shoot net par and you've "played to your handicap." Yes, and what they say is both accurate and makes sense. The WHS method bakes in the "playing from different tees" and makes it easier to know what it takes to "play to your handicap." Those are my notes right up until "The Par Pitfall." Dean has yet to make a valid point in any of this blog post thus far. When I have the time, and feel like procrastinating a bit more like today, I'll continue with my response to this blog post. I respect what Dean did in creating the original handicap system and the course ratinga system. The course rating system is one of the most elegant solutions to a very complex problem that I have ever seen. Nothing done by the WHS changes that. The course rating system is relatively unchanged, and its application in the WHS is, again, MORE accurate by the inclusion of the Course Rating than the previous system, in addition to the other benefits. Dean deserves (and has been given) much credit for that. But, if this is how he thinks these days, Dean can remain Pope Emeritus but the Cardinals need to elect a new Pope.
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