USGA Takes it On the Chin from Anonymous Whiny Tour Babies

[boogielicious]

20 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

100% correct. However, when the players are really who are earning the USGA all that money, I can understand them wanting to see where it goes. Especially when they're used to the PGA Tour, which is controlled by the players. Tour players have already had historical success with taking control of the events they play in. I totally understand where they are coming from, and it would probably benefit the USGA to break it down more, if only for just the players and not the public.

Think about it this way, if you can see that you're bringing in $1,000,000 worth of revenue to your business, but only getting paid $100,000, you're going to want a raise. Or you're going to find a new job that pays you more in line with the revenue you bring in. It doesn't really change when you add more zeros onto the ends of those numbers.

This sort of goes back to a point I made above, though. It's entirely about the perception here. The USGA should be presenting it as this - it's for some gear, it's to ensure you show up, that we get serious volunteers, and you will get more than $100 of value out of it. The perception (and I haven't gone back to the original e-mail I got about this to double check what it actually says) is that you have to pay to have the opportunity to volunteer at this amazing event.

FWIW, we don't even know if the PGA players are members of the USGA. But I know I am. They make a lot of money and to complain about that seems off to me. The USGA uses this money for this tournament and all the other tournaments they run and work they do for the members. It should not just all go to the PGA players. They certainly don't make anything on most of the others. They also increased the purses. What does the winner make, $2MM for four days work?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, boogielicious said:

FWIW, we don't even know if the PGA players are members of the USGA. But I know I am. They make a lot of money and to complain about that seems off to me. The USGA uses this money for this tournament and all the other tournaments they run and work they do for the members. It should not just all go to the PGA players. They certainly don't make anything on most of the others. They also increased the purses. What does the winner make, $2MM for four days work?

$2.16M last year. Largest tournament prize in golf outside The Match. 😉

[DaveP043]

28 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

100% correct. However, when the players are really who are earning the USGA all that money, I can understand them wanting to see where it goes. Especially when they're used to the PGA Tour, which is controlled by the players. Tour players have already had historical success with taking control of the events they play in. I totally understand where they are coming from, and it would probably benefit the USGA to break it down more, if only for just the players and not the public.

If you whisper a secret to a room full of 156 players, what do you think the chances are that it will remain a secret?  Much like the development of the Rules changes, I can see having more detailed discussions with a VERY small group of representatives of the PGA Tour, but not with the group as a whole.  And of course, someone (like Justin Thomas) will complain that they didn't specifically call HIM to discuss it.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

If you whisper a secret to a room full of 156 players, what do you think the chances are that it will remain a secret?  Much like the development of the Rules changes, I can see having more detailed discussions with a VERY small group of representatives of the PGA Tour, but not with the group as a whole.  And of course, someone (like Justin Thomas) will complain that they didn't specifically call HIM to discuss it.

Jason Gore is the player rep now remember.

[surfmonkey89]

I kinda like the idea of building their own course(s), but I guess that might get prohibitively expensive to maintain.

[DeadMan]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

The hell they are.

If tour pros pulled out of the US Open, it would essentially be the US Amateur. The USGA isn't pulling $100 million from putting on that event. And, the history of the PGA Tour shows that the players do have the power to just up and leave and form their own event if they wanted to.

10 hours ago, boogielicious said:

FWIW, we don't even know if the PGA players are members of the USGA. But I know I am. They make a lot of money and to complain about that seems off to me. The USGA uses this money for this tournament and all the other tournaments they run and work they do for the members. It should not just all go to the PGA players. They certainly don't make anything on most of the others. They also increased the purses. What does the winner make, $2MM for four days work?

I agree, honestly. I'm just saying that I see what their problem is here. Their perception is that they're making the USGA a ton of money, but they're not seeing their fair share. I understand that, even if my personal opinion is STFU and take your $2MM winnings for playing a game for 4 days.

10 hours ago, iacas said:

It’s the same deal across all of tournament golf. Your perceptions are just out of whack.

Yeah, I know it is. And I think the USGA is actually cheaper than the PGA Tour. It just rubs me the wrong way to see an organization that makes a ton of money require that you pay to volunteer. I personally would not volunteer for any pro event the USGA or a tour puts on. Maybe the LPGA.

That said, the scheduling and accountability thing hadn't crossed my mind before this. So now I understand it more.

[iacas]

56 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

If tour pros pulled out of the US Open, it would essentially be the US Amateur. The USGA isn't pulling $100 million from putting on that event. And, the history of the PGA Tour shows that the players do have the power to just up and leave and form their own event if they wanted to.

Nope. The USGA is making the money from FOX. It’s their problem first.

And they’re not gonna “start their own Tour” again over the U.S. Open. They couldn’t even protest one time.

[ChrisP]

I just hope the players don’t get their way and we start seeing “easy” US Opens to please them. They complained after 2015 and 2016 and the USGA threw them a bone in 2017. 

[DeadMan]

10 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

I just hope the players don’t get their way and we start seeing “easy” US Opens to please them. They complained after 2015 and 2016 and the USGA threw them a bone in 2017. 

Which just made the media mad because god forbid the winning score is around even par. Even though Brooks' total score was only 4 shots less than DJ's at Oakmont...

Really, the USGA is in a no win position. Either the players bitch and the media loves it, or the players love it and the media bitches.

[ChrisP]

16 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Which just made the media mad because god forbid the winning score is around even par. Even though Brooks' total score was only 4 shots less than DJ's at Oakmont...

Really, the USGA is in a no win position. Either the players bitch and the media loves it, or the players love it and the media bitches.

The 2013 Open was one of the few Opens where everyone was happy. Greens weren’t ridiculous and course was set up tough. Winning score was over par. Fairways were narrow and rough was long. Players seem to always whine about setups where the greens or flag positions aren’t to their liking. I say just narrow the fairways at Pebble and grow out the rough. And keep the speeds at about 12 on the stimp. Let the wind control the rest.

Edited May 30, 2019 by ChrisP

[DeadMan]

12 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

The 2013 Open was one of the few Opens where everyone was happy. Greens weren’t ridiculous and course was set up tough. Winning score was over par. Fairways were narrow and rough was long. Players seem to always whine about setups where the greens or flag positions aren’t to their liking. I say just narrow the fairways at Pebble and grow out the rough. And keep the speeds at about 12 on the stimp. Let the wind control the rest.

That's not right. Zach Johnson criticized the USGA, among others.

Zach Johnson Expresses 'Disdain' for USGA; Says Merion 'Manipulated' | Golf Channel

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Zach Johnson used strong words to describe his disappointment with the way the USGA set up the U.S. Open at Merion. I would describe the whole...

[Sandy Divot]

When there are multiple major winners talking about what the USGA is doing wrong, it's not right to classify these guys as whiny babies. These are guys that have won tournaments under difficult conditions, and just want a set up that is fair. Instead of dismissing these guys as cry babies, mabye the USGA should listen. I'm sure some of the complaints are a bit over the top, but, I'm also sure the main goal of these players is to have the best championship possible. 

[ChrisP]

7 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

That's not right. Zach Johnson criticized the USGA, among others.

Zach Johnson Expresses 'Disdain' for USGA; Says Merion 'Manipulated' | Golf Channel

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Zach Johnson used strong words to describe his disappointment with the way...

I stand corrected. And 2014 was no rough. 2015 was too bumpy. 2016 was too tough. 2017 was too easy. And 2018 was too fast. Wonder what the 2019 storyline will be.

[DaveP043]

15 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

I stand corrected. And 2014 was no rough. 2015 was too bumpy. 2016 was too tough. 2017 was too easy. And 2018 was too fast. Wonder what the 2019 storyline will be.

I was at the 2014 US Open in Pinehurst.  That was interesting in that the rebuild of the course removed the Bermuda rough, along with a lot of the sprinklers along the edges of the fairways.  The plan was to allow the natural vegetation to grow in, supplemented by tufts of wire grass.  But an extremely dry spring kept the growth down, and the lack of sprinklers along the edges meant that growth couldn't be artificially encouraged..  Even with no rough, other than natural sandy wasteland, only one player finished the week below -1.  I don't remember a lot of complaints about the course conditions, other than some people who didn't like the appearance, more brown areas and fewer green areas.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Sandy Divot said:

it's not right to classify these guys as whiny babies. These are guys that have won tournaments under difficult conditions, and just want a set up that is fair.

Whining about a bigger purse - when it's already the biggest purse - isn't being whiny?

Whining about a helpful reminder to count clubs isn't being whiny?

No, thank you, I categorize much of what I read as whining.

Everyone had to play the same setups: they were fair. The U.S. Open is always the tough one; 20 years ago they wouldn't have bitched this much. They didn't bitch this much at the Massacre at Winged Foot in 1974 as they do these days.

1 hour ago, Sandy Divot said:

Instead of dismissing these guys as cry babies, mabye the USGA should listen.

The USGA didn't dismiss them as cry babies; I did. I'm not the USGA, who has Jason Gore to help them listen.

[DaveP043]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

Whining about a bigger purse - when it's already the biggest purse - isn't being whiny?

This one in particular seemed odd to me.  When I looked back at the 2014, the purse was $8 million.  Last year it was $12 million.  It does seem pretty greedy to complain that the increase was "only" 50% over just 4 years.

[klineka]

1 hour ago, Sandy Divot said:

These are guys that have won tournaments under difficult conditions, and just want a set up that is fair. 

But isn't every set up fair since they all play the same course?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

But isn't every set up fair since they all play the same course?

The British Open is, by far, the least fair of the four majors.