Feel Ain't Real Is B.S.

[hoselpalooza]

2 minutes ago, Grizvok said:

To be honest, one of @iacas most recent rebuttals to your assertion in that thread actually makes a hell of a lot more sense mechanically than what you are attempting to propose.

let's take this to another thread: 

 

[Vinsk]

4 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

yeah, like many other golfers i push off with my trail foot during transition/early part of the downswing. it's not a "feel" it's literally conscious movement.

So have you been on ground force plates and confirmed this? If just into your downswing you ‘push off’ your trail foot then the pressure would show an increase on your trail foot plate yes? However if you shift your weight from your trail foot to your lead foot you would see a rapid decrease in the trail foot reading and an Increase in your lead plate. Yes? I’m saying it’s possible you feel that you’re pushing off when actually you’re just shifting.

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

yeah, like many other golfers i push off with my trail foot during transition/early part of the downswing.

I've yet to see any proof of this. In every video you've posted, you're definitely not "pushing off with your trail foot."

24 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

it's not a "feel" it's literally conscious movement. i don't magically shift pressure to my lead foot from my rear foot, i push/jump off of the trail side to get there.

To do that would spike - pretty hard - the pressure in your trail foot.

24 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

whether or not this is physically possible is currently under debate though...

That's a horrible summary, and you linked to a topic where discussion of the legs is completely off topic. The discussion is not about whether it's "physically possible." The discussion is about whether good golfers actually "do" it. They don't.

[Cantankerish]

2 hours ago, Shindig said:

Seems to be a common thread for people teaching physical skills.  I wonder if there's a similar view for teaching things like math or computer programming.

Only if you are going for a heuristic solution.  But most of the time (especially if you are worth your salt), both of these disciplines need exactness.

[Missouri Swede]

1 hour ago, hoselpalooza said:

those who disagree with someone about movement in the golf swing and argue "feel ain't real" instead of using data.

 

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

Can you give an example of this? I don’t see how someone could argue what another is feeling. They argue whet they’re actually doing using data.

I think the previous (mis)perception of the ball flight laws might be an example. (Feel: path determines starting direction, instead of clubface).  Some were teaching this even after the launch monitor data was (were?) available.

[Piz]

"Feel ain't real" is not an either/or proposition.  Of course one can "feel" they are doing something they are not - or not doing something they are - but that is not a permanent condition.  As our swings evolve (or devolve)  so does our thinking.  Feelings may be unreliable, at the outset, but that doesn't mean they should be ignored...if such a thing is even possible.  

In other words...if it is necessary to develop a feel for the game; I'd like to believe it is possible to do so.  It is one thing, to give an example, to learn the note sequence in a particular piece of music...and another thing to develop a feel for the piece.  The golf swing is no different in that respect.  

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

 

I think the previous (mis)perception of the ball flight laws might be an example. (Feel: path determines starting direction, instead of clubface).  Some were teaching this even after the launch monitor data was (were?) available.

I’m not sure that’s an example. Golfers (even pros) again may feel they’re taking a certain path or face angle when they’re not. Faldo gave a description of how to hit a fade around a tree. He gave the classic phrase...aim the face where you want the ball to end and swing where you want it to start. He then said to aim for the tree and you’ll fade it around it. He felt that’s what he was doing but according to the ball flight laws his ball would fly directly into the tree. Did I explain that correctly? The ball flight laws were really confirming what was actually happening despite what golfers thought (felt) they were doing. 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I’m not sure that’s an example. Golfers (even pros) again may feel they’re taking a certain path or face angle when they’re not. Faldo gave a description of how to hit a fade around a tree. He gave the classic phrase...aim the face where you want the ball to end and swing where you want it to start. He then said to aim for the tree and you’ll fade it around it. He felt that’s what he was doing but according to the ball flight laws his ball would fly directly into the tree. Did I explain that correctly? The ball flight laws were really confirming what was actually happening despite what golfers thought (felt) they were doing. 

Yeah, except at impact Faldo's face would be left of the tree, with the path further left than that, so he'd likely hit a good shot, but his body didn't do what he thought it was doing.

I think the ball flight laws are a case of "feel ain't real" of a sort. "Path is instinctual" we've said.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/7/2019 at 7:13 AM, hoselpalooza said:

this is exactly the point. feel can become real. 

 

On 6/7/2019 at 7:22 AM, dennyjones said:

Maybe you just glazed over @iacas's post.     

This is it in a nutshell, and it happened on the first page! You practice positions and movements to make "real" become "feel"! It doesn't work the other way around. 

I know many here don't like Hank Haney, but I watched a vid of him instructing a guy who crossed the line like crazy! So, Hank tried to get him to exaggerate pointing the club the other way at the top. He had the guy make practice swing after practice swing. When he got close to what Haney wanted, he let him hit some balls, and the guy hit some decent shots. 

At the end of the lesson, Haney told the student that he never got close to the position he wanted him to be in. The student was astounded. Haney assured him that he got "close enough" to the proper line where he could strike the ball somewhat accurately.  

[The Recreational Golfer]

On the one hand, "feel isn't real" means that what it feels like we are doing can be quite different from what we are doing.

On the other hand, when we learn to do something in the golf swing correctly, we have to learn what that feels like so feel becomes real.