Sweeping Generalizations After One Week of Experiences

[klineka]

3 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

I'm going to give you a little advice now in this world there is no secret ingredient, everything is a continuum, no one is perfect and no one is the perfect dragon warrior.

Nobody is perfect, but most people (including high handicap golfers) are fairly consistent with their club path delivery, which is why @Jeremie Boop was getting the same ball flight regardless of which driver/shaft combination he tried.

Please stop making generalizations based on your very small sample size of personal experiences.

[DaveP043]

To generalize, most "experts" in any field will tend to look to cure a specific issue using their own area of expertise.  A surgeon might give you different advice than an internal medicine doc.  A pro who is primarily interested in clubfitting is likely to look at fixing a problem with a new club, a pro more interested in teaching is more likely to look at a swing change to improve the same issue.  Obviously there are exceptions to my generalization.

As a 8 or 9 handicapper, there's no doubt that your swing can improve, whether you want to do the work to make that happen or not.  There's also a chance that you can improve your driving using a different shaft.  Its certainly easier to simply buy a club, but its quite possible that the pros that you are complaining about are giving you the best possible advice.

[ncates00]

16 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

Here's the problem with this, you draw with the other clubs, so to say no matter what equipment you used would produce an open face at impact is just contradictory. If you used a cut down driver to 40 inches it may not or a ladies flex it may not. I'm going to give you a little advice now in this world there is no secret ingredient, everything is a continuum, no one is perfect and no one is the perfect dragon warrior. It is a trade off between having the absolutely best distance club in your hands with the shaft that works the best and the club you hit the most consistently, no matter what you swing, end of story not secret ingredient no perfect warrior. It is also a trade off at some point on whether it's worth the effort to change a swing or better fixed with a shaft change if your swing is good enough.

A lot of people play a different shape with driver than they do with irons. Many pros hit fades with driver and draws with irons. I personally hit a push draw stock with every club, but I know a lot people who love a fade with driver and draw their irons- they feel like the driver fade will stay in play. (Whether that’s true or not is another matter)

Look into angle of attack. 

[Shindig]

30 minutes ago, PerfectStriking said:

Here's the problem with this, you draw with the other clubs, so to say no matter what equipment you used would produce an open face at impact is just contradictory.

Huh?  Plenty of people hit a draw with an club face open at impact. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, PerfectStriking said:

Maybe your wife's clubs are great clubs who knows, I'd probably swing them better than yours right 🙂 The point is not everything is a swing problem and you unfortunately just reaffirmed that every teaching pro thinks that as the first reason.

I didn't "reaffirm" anything.

You've been asked repeatedly to show your swing. Until then, and until we can see that, I'm just pointing out that you could very easily be swinging left, producing fades and 25% of the time slices with your driver, and pull-fading your irons so they go far but low. It's pretty common, and 7-irons go straighter than drivers.

I'm only "reaffirming" facts here - it's highly unlikely that your "fix" is going to be changing the shaft.

And I'd wager a good sum that you're swinging left with every club in your bag.

That's not "re-affirming" anything, because it's a guess based on… wait for it… not even having seen your swing. Why? Because you don't want to show us your swing?

2 hours ago, PerfectStriking said:

Ok so people saying this probably isn't a swing problem, but then saying it probably is seem not to be able to stop contradicting themselves,

What are you reading?

2 hours ago, PerfectStriking said:

Will let you know in a few weeks who was right ok 🙂 and after that if anyone makes the PGA tour I'll give you the credit to contradict yourself regardless of whether it makes sense.

You're just trolling at this point now.

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

What people are saying, is that without seeing your swing, we cannot tell if it’s a swing problem. However, in the vast majority of cases, problems are much more likely the result of swing issues than equipment.

We have a winner.

[Talldog]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

To generalize, most "experts" in any field will tend to look to cure a specific issue using their own area of expertise. 

As the old saying goes: when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

The first step in diagnosing a problem is eliminating the easy stuff (computer won't start? make sure it's plugged up and turned on before you rip out the power supply and install a new one).

It would seem to me that the easy first step for the OP is to determine if it's a hardware problem. Try out several drivers in different configurations and see if the problems occur with every one. If it does, then he can start tinkering with his swing. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Talldog

[DaveP043]

1 minute ago, Talldog said:

As the old saying goes: when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

The first step in diagnosing a problem is eliminating the easy stuff (computer won't start? make sure it's plugged up and turned on before you rip out the power supply and install a new one).

It would seem to me that the easy first step for the OP is to determine if it's a hardware problem. Try out several drivers in different configurations and see if the problems occur with every one. If it does, then he can start tinkering with his swing. 

I don't argue that its easy to try out other drivers, and much more difficult to change a swing.  But the OP went to visit a couple of professionals.  Presumably they saw him swing his driver, and felt that his problem was best addressed by improving his swing.  He seems angry that they didn't agree with his own (probably less well-informed) opinion that it is OBVIOUSLY an equipment issue.  Yes, on your own, go tinker with equipment, you're much less likely to completely screw things up, like you might if you were to tinker with your swing all on your own.  But if you see a professional, you might just want to consider that he is likely to know more than you do.  

[Jeremie Boop]

4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I don't argue that its easy to try out other drivers, and much more difficult to change a swing.  But the OP went to visit a couple of professionals.  Presumably they saw him swing his driver, and felt that his problem was best addressed by improving his swing.  He seems angry that they didn't agree with his own (probably less well-informed) opinion that it is OBVIOUSLY an equipment issue.  Yes, on your own, go tinker with equipment, you're much less likely to completely screw things up, like you might if you were to tinker with your swing all on your own.  But if you see a professional, you might just want to consider that he is likely to know more than you do.  

This is part of my confusion. He's upset that they were saying, hey, you don't need to spend a lot of money on a new driver. You may just need to make a small swing change/fix and you'll drive it better/how you are wanting to with what you have. In my humble opinion, that's the mark of a good *read honest* salesperson. They are forgoing the revenue of a sale so you don't end up with buyer's remorse of dropping several hundred on equipment.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Jeremie Boop

[ncates00]

7 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

This is part of my confusion. He's upset that they were saying, hey, you don't need to spend a lot of money on a new driver. You may just need to make a small swing change/fix and you'll drive it better/how you are wanting to with what you have. In my humble opinion, that's the mark of a good *read honest* salesperson. They are forgoing the revenue of a sale so you don't end up with buyer's remorse of dropping several hundred on equipment.

People like to think they can take a shortcut and "buy" their way to better golf; for most, good golf takes a lot of work, and people don't like to work.  "It can't possibly be ME that's the problem here!  It's this driver!  I need a new one!"

Edited July 15, 2019 by ncates00

[Shindig]

36 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

People like to think they can take a shortcut and "buy" their way to better golf; for most, good golf takes a lot of work, and people don't like to work.  "It can't possibly be ME that's the problem here!  It's this driver!  I need a new one!"

Thank goodness I am notoriously cheap.  I wouldn't be nearly as good at golf if that weren't the case.  My paying $50/month for quality swing advice pretty much whenever I need it is much better for my game than a new driver or set of irons every year.

[billchao]

I'll chime in here because I feel I have relevant experience with this. Over the last few years, I've done a full bag fitting (the paid for kind where they have no incentive to sell you clubs) and demo days, as well has the occasional golf lesson with good instructors.

My experience with the fitting was that the fitter recommended switching to a heavier and stiffer shaft for better results, but he explicitly stated that it would be unlikely an equipment change would correct my driving issues and he did not recommend a new driver for me at the time. I took his advice and changed shafts, but he was absolutely correct. While my good strikes got slightly better, my big miss and other smaller misses were still there. It was a skill issue.

To my surprise, the reps at various demo days I went to said pretty much the same thing. I hit my driver and theirs, and their conclusions were that different equipment would not do anything to improve my overall driving. In fact during the last demo day I went to, the rep used to be an instructor and he ended up spending time giving me a mini-lesson instead of trying to sell me on the advantages of his company's latest lineup. We both could plainly see the equipment wasn't the issue.

The only times my driving has ever improved has been due to instruction and diligently working on improving my swing. It's a long process, but I've seen improvement steadily over the years. I still have a ways to go, but my driver is no longer the worst club in my bag. That's the 3w. f*** that club 😜

[leftybutnotPM]

7 hours ago, PerfectStriking said:

 if you are looking to solve an obvious equipment problem IMHO, paying for someone with shaft fitting ability that assures you they are not going to talk about swing changes is worth the money IMHO.

I'm pretty sure that if you go to enough pros willing to take your money one will relent and tell you that your problem is equipment related. You'll wear someone down eventually when it's obvious that you don't want to hear anything that will indicate your swing fault/s. Sounds like you'd be happy to accept that information.

 

[Shindig]

34 minutes ago, billchao said:

The only times my driving has ever improved has been due to instruction and diligently working on improving my swing. It's a long process, but I've seen improvement steadily over the years. I still have a ways to go, but my driver is no longer the worst club in my bag. That's the 3w. f*** that club 😜

Have you considered a 4W?  I made the switch last summer and went from "please give me an excuse to not hit the 3W" to "please give me an excuse to hit the 4W."

[billchao]

Just now, Shindig said:

Have you considered a 4W?  I made the switch last summer and went from "please give me an excuse to not hit the 3W" to "please give me an excuse to hit the 4W."

It's a strong 4w actually, just easier to say 3w. I've tried it adjust up for loft, but that didn't seem to get rid of chunks and toe hits. I can't feel the head at all.

Now that I think about it, I never changed the shaft in that club. It's still the stock shaft and it's actually lighter than my current driver shaft. That's probably part of the problem. There's no reason at this point that my driver swing has improved but my 3w swing is still garbage.

[ncates00]

6 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Have you considered a 4W?  I made the switch last summer and went from "please give me an excuse to not hit the 3W" to "please give me an excuse to hit the 4W."

@billchao or the Adams Tight Lies 2 titanium. I went from hating 3w to loving it. I have one in 13.5*. I like the shallow faced woods; I feel like the lack of the big head makes me feel I can strike it higher in the face for better launch. I hit it on some tee boxes and never use a tee.