LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[iacas]

Also, Cam Smith is a douche.

[Friz]

This was previously "debunked" but apparently came up again in the legal case

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Friz said:

This was previously "debunked" but apparently came up again in the legal case

Brandel was right.

[Hardluckster]

58 minutes ago, Friz said:

This was previously "debunked" but apparently came up again in the legal case

 

It does say "some", though. It would be very interesting to know which players are covered by that type of contact. 

[Friz]

21 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

It does say "some", though. It would be very interesting to know which players are covered by that type of contact. 

I'd have to assume the larger contracts, and considering not everyone there  right now has guaranteed money or a multi year deal, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume ALL guaranteed money is subject to this clause.  That would still leave "some" players receiving their tournament winnings

Regardless, at least SOME players are literally playing for nothing until they make enough in tournaments to surpass whatever their contract value is.

[Hardluckster]

4 minutes ago, Friz said:

I'd have to assume the larger contracts, and considering not everyone there  right now has guaranteed money or a multi year deal, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume ALL guaranteed money is subject to this clause.  That would still leave "some" players receiving their tournament winnings

Regardless, at least SOME players are literally playing for nothing until they make enough in tournaments to surpass whatever their contract value is.

My point is that it's all speculation at this point. I would like to know who actually has this type of contact, although its very unlikely that information will be released any time soon imo. 

I do think that this could have an adverse effect on LIV Golf receiving OWGR points.

I've always felt that players, regardless of signing money, would still want to win and collect that $4M purse. I thought that they would still have a very good reason to remain competitive (especially if they are all indeed money-grubbing individuals as claimed by so many folks). If purse winnings are simply subtracted from the signing bonus, however, I think it changes that aspect completely. I would suspect that the OWGR committee might also be very interested in this aspect of the contacts. 

[DeadMan]

I am a little surprised the LIV players didn't get a temporary restraining order. This means that the PGA Tour bans are going to be in force for a while, and LIV players will not be able to play in a PGA Tour event.

It also means the lawsuit will likely be going to discovery. That is going to be extremely messy. And interesting for us outsiders. But the lawsuit is likely going to drag on for a couple of years at this point. There is a small chance the LIV players voluntarily dismiss the lawsuit and different players file a new lawsuit somewhere else. I don't think that's what will happen here, but I could be wrong.

Edited August 10, 2022 by DeadMan

[DaveP043]

8 hours ago, DeadMan said:

But the lawsuit is likely going to drag on for a couple of years at this point.

If I read this right, the lawsuit won't even be heard for another full year, at soonest, and it could be even further in the future.  If the 2025 date holds true, the loss of OWGR points could become really severe for many of the LIV players who would like to play in the majors.  

Federal judge rejects bid by three LIV golfers to compete in FedEx Cup playoffs

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A federal judge on Tuesday denied a temporary restraining order to three golfers who were seeking to participate in the FedEx Cup Playoffs after leaving the PGA Tour for the upstart LIV Golf Invitational Series.

Quote

Freeman told attorneys that her court's first availability for a trial on the antitrust lawsuit would be September 2023. If that date doesn't work, the trial might not happen until 2025. That is significant because LIV players aren't currently receiving Official World Golf Ranking points for LIV events. LIV Golf recently submitted an application to OWGR for consideration.

[imsys0042]

Cam Smith stonewalls reporters amid reports he's joining LIV Golf

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Cam Smith is reportedly joining LIV Golf, but he refused to confirm those reports before the start of the FedEx Cup Playoffs this week.

Cam Smith is a mega douche.  Stonewalling so he can play in the FedEx Cup and delaying what is reportedly a done deal.   Just take the blood money and then go get a decent haircut.  This has swirled since the Open.   If I was paired with him at the FedEx I’d be giving him the cold shoulder. 

[iacas]

44 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

Cam Smith is a mega douche.

Yes. Not a fan. If you’re a “man of your word” then give your word and say what we all now know.

And sorry bub, you’re not playing in the Presidents Cup if you play in Boston.

[chspeed]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yes. Not a fan. If you’re a “man of your word” then give your word and say what we all now know.

And sorry bub, you’re not playing in the Presidents Cup if you play in Boston.

Me neither.

But as tweet above said, this is indeed a big loss for PGA and a big victory for LIV. All the other top players recruited are in the afternoon (or twilight) of their careers. He's arguably on his way up (#2) and is among the world's best putters right now.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, imsys0042 said:

Cam Smith is a mega douche.  Stonewalling so he can play in the FedEx Cup and delaying what is reportedly a done deal.  

I'm of two minds here.  I had, and still have, big problems with players who signed a PGA Tour contract last fall, and broke it to play the LIV Tour.  Cam Smith is apparently going to complete his contractual obligations with the Tour, and join the LIV Tour before the next PGA Tour season begins.  That seem to be a reasonable sequence to me.

On the other hand, stonewalling is tantamount to lying, assuming the reports are correct and the deal is already done.  Still, what if he says "I'm going to play out my contract and then leave for LIV"?  Does the Tour suspend him from the playoffs for his future plans, even though he hasn't broken any of the contract requirements yet?  That seems problematic to me too.

[Bucki1968]

15 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I'm of two minds here.  I had, and still have, big problems with players who signed a PGA Tour contract last fall, and broke it to play the LIV Tour.  Cam Smith is apparently going to complete his contractual obligations with the Tour, and join the LIV Tour before the next PGA Tour season begins.  That seem to be a reasonable sequence to me.

On the other hand, stonewalling is tantamount to lying, assuming the reports are correct and the deal is already done.  Still, what if he says "I'm going to play out my contract and then leave for LIV"?  Does the Tour suspend him from the playoffs for his future plans, even though he hasn't broken any of the contract requirements yet?  That seems problematic to me too.

This is exactly what I was thinking when the news came down. Why wouldn't other players follow this same path. Why bail on the Pga tour in the middle of season? 

[ChetlovesMer]

Just now, Bucki1968 said:

Why bail on the Pga tour in the middle of season? 

They may have been threatened that if they don't take the money now, the offer will be withdrawn. 

Shoot, I'm sorry. That's not it. 
It's because they are in a hurry "To Grow The Game". 🤪

[Shindig]

11 hours ago, DeadMan said:

I am a little surprised the LIV players didn't get a temporary restraining order. This means that the PGA Tour bans are going to be in force for a while, and LIV players will not be able to play in a PGA Tour event.

It also means the lawsuit will likely be going to discovery. That is going to be extremely messy. And interesting for us outsiders. But the lawsuit is likely going to drag on for a couple of years at this point. There is a small chance the LIV players voluntarily dismiss the lawsuit and different players file a new lawsuit somewhere else. I don't think that's what will happen here, but I could be wrong.

The lack of restraining order doesn't surprise me, but I think you have more expertise in this arena than I do.  I think the reasoning was it was not an emergency, it was foreseeable, they knew it would happen, and they took their time filing it.  I think if they had known it was going to happen, and did it anyway, and filed right when that happened, they'd have a better argument.

In any case, on the rare occasion I watch a lawsuit, discovery is often my favorite part.  Where are my popcorn gifs?

[ChetlovesMer]

3 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Where are my popcorn gifs?

Personal favorite: 

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

On the other hand, stonewalling is tantamount to lying, assuming the reports are correct and the deal is already done.  Still, what if he says "I'm going to play out my contract and then leave for LIV"?  Does the Tour suspend him from the playoffs for his future plans, even though he hasn't broken any of the contract requirements yet?  That seems problematic to me too.

I don't think it is similar to lying. It is in that gray area for sure. Just because a reporter asks you a question does not mean you are required to answer it. Not answering questions has its own consequences in terms of the persons image. Court of public opinion is much less likely to assume a person is innocent. 

We all wish people would just be honest, but also, he has to protect his best interests. I am sure his lawyers have told him not to comment on it. What he says now could be used if he has to go to court with the PGA Tour over playing out this year. Even if the PGA Tour has no grounds to suspend him because he would be playing out this golf season. 

To change my severity of stonewalling, its WAY less worse than lying. In the end, he isn't lying. He isn't going up there and saying, "I plan on sticking with the PGA Tour going foward." Then in 6 months he jumps ship. Like, that is definitely worse than him not answering.  

[Shindig]

I guess I missed Cam's press conference, but from the comments, I am guessing he didn't quite go full Marshawn, but maybe it would have been better for him if he had?

I have no idea what PGA Tour media interaction guidelines say.