General COVID-19 Topic

[boogielicious]

4 minutes ago, TN94z said:

I really don't understand how anyone could "deny" that it is a legit thing. Your opinion is your opinion on some things but not believing it is real is just not factual.

The last few years has given rise to conspiracy theory sites who feast on stuff like this. And the worst part is that they do it to make money. It’s awful. They con people into irrational denial just to make money off them.

[iacas]

31 minutes ago, TN94z said:

I really don't understand how anyone could "deny" that it is a legit thing. Your opinion is your opinion on some things but not believing it is real is just not factual.

You can deny some things, like maybe the total death count (i.e. a terminally ill patient that would have died in a month dies of COVID, does that "really" count as a COVID death? You could argue both ways.), but denying that this is a real thing that, alone, can kill you or harm you is just f***ing stupid.

Fortunately (slightly tongue in cheek), maybe I'll be able to jump some of those deniers in getting my vaccination.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

This is the stuff i don't get. To me this is like the flat-earthers. 

How about this, just call it The 2020-Flu. They might take it more seriously with re-branding. 

It's like denying a shank.  "Nope, that was just an extreme push, not a shank."

[Missouri Swede]

48 minutes ago, iacas said:

Fortunately (slightly tongue in cheek), maybe I'll be able to jump some of those deniers in getting my vaccination.

Yeah, but to protect others, they’re the people who should be vaccinated earlier. They’ll also be the ones who will refuse it. 

[ChetlovesMer]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

So are you going to pay everyone to stay at home and not work?

Look, there has to be some sort of practical balance here, particularly if you're not a high risk category, you don't often see high risk category people at home, etc.

I wear my mask everywhere. I don't go out much at all, except when really necessary. I played golf on Black Friday… I drove myself there, paid quickly with my mask on, and spent the rest of the time outside, before driving home by myself. I got gas on the way out… staying outside at the pump.

It's obvious that TV shows and some other things were ramped up over the past few months. They're starting to show some shows, though they're often filmed with protections in place. I've seen on All Rise, for example, actors wearing face masks and with shields and plexiglass in the court rooms, etc. That's not all just for show, though it does make for more timely shows. Some shows try to "pretend" they're in a post-COVID world, but you can still see that there are fewer extras, the actors are farther apart, etc. And I'm sure they're tested somewhat regularly, too.

I worry about the holidays and the number of people that will travel. I worry about COVID fatigue. I worry that people will see that we have a vaccine and, rather than saying "we only need to hold out for another 3 or 4 months (or whatever)," that they'll say "yay, it's going to be over!" and let their guard (and masks) down.

But let's not over-react, either. An abundance of caution is one thing. An abundance of fear is another thing entirely.

This is a good post. 

[gbogey]

I hesitate to post anything to this forum, but below is from a NY Times newletter that I thought was good - sorry their isn't a link

How to manage your virus risk

The most effective public health messages don’t merely tell people what not to do. They also tell people what they can do with only a small amount of risk.

This sometimes feels counterintuitive, because it gives people permission to take some risks, rather than urging maximum safety all the time. In the long run, though, a more realistic approach is actually the safer one, many experts say.

Human beings are social creatures. Most aren’t going to sit inside their houses for months on end. And pretending otherwise tends to backfire. It leads people to ignore public health advice and take needlessly big risks. “We need different, more nuanced, and more practical messaging about coronavirus safety,” Sarit Golub, a psychology professor at Hunter College, has written.

(Federal officials took a step in this direction this week by shortening the recommended quarantine period after virus exposure.)

Today, I want to give you a three-step guide to risk minimization. It’s based on a Times survey of 700 epidemiologists as well as my conversations with experts and colleagues, like Donald G. McNeil Jr.

1. There is one behavior you should try to eliminate, without exception: Spending time in a confined space (outside your household) where anyone is unmasked.

Don’t eat indoors at a restaurant or friend’s house. Don’t have close, unmasked conversations anywhere, even outdoors. If you must fly, try to not to eat or drink on the plane. If you’re going to work, don’t have lunch in the same room as colleagues. Group lunches have led to outbreaks at hospitals and elsewhere.

2. This next set of behaviors is best to minimize if you can’t avoid it: Spending extended time in indoor spaces, even with universal masking.

Masks aren’t perfect. If you can work out at home rather than at a gym — or do your job or attend religious services remotely — you’re reducing your risk.

3. Now the better news: Several activities are less risky than some people fear.

You don’t need to wear a mask when you go for a walk or a jog. Donald, who’s famously careful, bikes without a mask. “I consider keeping six feet distant outdoors more important than wearing a mask,” he told me. “If I had a birthday candle in my hand and you’re too far away to blow it out, I can’t inhale whatever you exhale.”

You can also feel OK about doing many errands. About 90 percent of the epidemiologists in our survey have recently visited a grocery store, a pharmacy or another store. Just wear a mask, stay distant from others and wash your hands afterward.

[Ole Duffer]

5 hours ago, phillyk said:

My friend’s dad and step mom are covid deniers, and started to develop some symptoms a couple weeks ago. The step mom is having a tough time going through chemo so one of their daughters is having to take care of them. The daughter then started to get sick, got tested, and got a positive result for coronavirus.
 

Needless to say my friend is really pissed off. They had canceled thanksgiving over whether covid was real and election results. The dad and step mom still refuse to believe they have something other than a cold and won’t go get tested. I couldn’t imagine being my friend in this situation. 

We just heard from a close friend whom we hadn't heard from for awhile.  She went back to work when the lockdown ended, but in a small office with just nine others.  She and her husband are not deny-ers, but felt relatively safe.

When she went back to work, she said she would not want to do what I do, deal with tourists at the golf course, or what my wife does, deal with tourists at a live entertainment venue, but she was OK with what she had to do.

We had not heard from her because she has been battling COVID Biggly the last month.  It took 21 days of suffering before she could go back to work, and can only do four days, with naps, and when she gets a good night's sleep.

She said five of the nine in her office are deny-ers, and two of the others have tested positive.

I do not feel I could say how we really feel about those who seem to be on the side of the virus, assisting it's spread, so I'll just repeat . . . . Personal Choice is not how to fight a pandemic.  We'll just feel awful about what medical workers are being forced to go through by those enabling the spread.

My wife and I just got back from our very-infrequent trip to WalMart, which was 100% mask-compliant, much different than 90 days ago, and I thought, "See, that's not that hard."

If we could just all get on the same side for a short time, we could be back to our abnormal normal.  No shutdown necessary.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Ole Duffer

[Double Mocha Man]

Speaking of deniers... it's been several months since I've heard anyone say covid-19 is not as bad as the flu.  276,000 covid deaths later (vs. 22,000 flu deaths) and those deniers have gone silent.

And speaking of vaccinations... I like the idea of the $1500 incentive to get the shot(s).  Though I think $1000 would get the same results.  I bet that incentive would move 70-80% of the anti-vaxers off the schneid.  They're fickle and easily bought. Then we'd quickly get our herd immunity.  And I can remove this damn mask.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Double Mocha Man

[Ole Duffer]

What the Canadian said.

👍

[Missouri Swede]

6 hours ago, Ole Duffer said:

which was 100% mask-compliant, much different than 90 days ago,

Why? I haven’t been to Walmart without a mask since ... April?

 

More importantly, I hope your friend recovers soon.

[Ole Duffer]

11 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

Why? I haven’t been to Walmart without a mask since ... April?

 

More importantly, I hope your friend recovers soon.

I wasn't talking about you or me.  😉 I was talking about the selfish folks.  I don't see them at WalMart any more.

Thanks, she's getting better . . . but now a Snowbird couple we know have it in Orange Beach, exposed by the deny-er boyfriend of their next door neighbor, who got it at the bar.  He is a retired healthcare worker, and they are just quarantining for now, hoping it doesn't get worse.

My friend had gotten groceries for the neighbor, and left them at her door.  The boyfriend came to thank him, and wouldn't back off, got in his face and stuck a 20 in his shirt pocket. 

A 20, and COVID.

[Ole Duffer]

FWIW, the media reports that Pandemic unemployment benefits will end at the end of the year are bogus.

Missouri stopped paying them altogether in October, saying the State fully opened without restrictions in June.

Of course, that's fake news; you can look at BLS employment data and see the facts.  In the tourist area of Branson, for instance, 1/2 of the normal 9000 seasonal workers have not worked at all this year.

2019	Jul		42555

2020	Jul		38015

& as far as people staying at home to collect $600 a week, that ended at the end of July.  So, more would be employed in August because they had to go back to work, right?

2020	Jul		38015

2020	Aug		37643

Nope, fewer were working because many entertainment venues are closed for the year.

 

 

 

 

[uitar9]

On 12/3/2020 at 2:39 PM, Double Mocha Man said:

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid but why take chances?  There's this:  "A New England Journal of Medicine study explored the virus’ lifespan on different surfaces. The study found that the virus is detectable on plastic – the material most gas pump handles are made of – for up to 72 hours."

And this:   "Snopes and Health Feedback investigated the claim and found it to be partly false. Snopes explained: “Gas pumps are just one of many objects that multiple people commonly handle in similar fashion during the course of a day, including ATMs, payment processing systems, shopping cart handles and currency, all of which pose varying degrees of risk."

Granted, surfaces are not the main spreader of the virus.  But again, why take chances?

Throw the sanitizer and mask in every car I drive. Gas pumps; use the sanitizer in the car before I start the car or close the door. Good hand wash once I get to my destination (or more sanitizeder) or home. 

[Ole Duffer]

41 minutes ago, uitar9 said:

Throw the sanitizer and mask in every car I drive. Gas pumps; use the sanitizer in the car before I start the car or close the door. Good hand wash once I get to my destination (or more sanitizeder) or home. 

That's pretty much what me and mine do.  

A couple weeks ago our Commissioner showed up at the front door, unannounced, to talk about something we were trying to get done.  He's big, get-close-to-you guy, and we was not masked.

Once I realized whom it was, I put on the mask I keep at the front door.

Yesterday I was expecting a check in the mail, so when our rural carrier came down the road, I put that handy mask on to go meet her.  My wife's brother is a rural mail carrier, in a rural deny-er county, which is now spiking, so we talk about how public buildings like post offices are a good place to spread it. 

Note enough is known about surface spreading, but since using surface disinfectant is recommended, that's a possibility, too.  We spray all packages and leave them on the porch awhile, then wash our hands.

---

CDC Guidelines for Events and Gatherings, 

Updated Nov. 17, 2020

 

Communities, Schools, Workplaces, & Event

---

Cleaning and Disinfecting: Everyday steps, when someone is sick, and considerations for employers.

[Ole Duffer]

Pay people to stay at home?

Well, it's not as simple as that, but a Stay-At-Home Order would likely get more compliance if people got paid.  It is in line with the CARES Act, paying both businesses and individuals.

It would definitely be more acceptable than martial law, or roadblocks set up to keep people from going places they should not.  Which, by the way, we sometimes had where I grew up in Iowa in times of emergencies, like floods and tornadoes.  Authorities kept people from going places, doing things, that would hamper the recovery efforts.

As a last resort, if people don't comply with the national health emergency, it may take more drastic measures than personal choice.

food for thought

[boogielicious]

5 hours ago, Ole Duffer said:

Pay people to stay at home?

Well, it's not as simple as that, but a Stay-At-Home Order would likely get more compliance if people got paid.  It is in line with the CARES Act, paying both businesses and individuals.

It would definitely be more acceptable than martial law, or roadblocks set up to keep people from going places they should not.  Which, by the way, we sometimes had where I grew up in Iowa in times of emergencies, like floods and tornadoes.  Authorities kept people from going places, doing things, that would hamper the recovery efforts.

As a last resort, if people don't comply with the national health emergency, it may take more drastic measures than personal choice.

food for thought

You only seem to be posting in this thread. We have many other areas on the site to explore. This is a golf forum after all.

[jmanbooyaa]

Obvious agenda. @Old Duffer if you are that worried stay home, lock yourself indoors. 
 

Stay at home order? Joke! Pay people to stay home? Keep your socialism crap to yourself. Golf forum, not CNN. 

[Ole Duffer]

First Amendment.

"This is a gold forum after all."

What's a "Gold" forum?

- - - - - - 

Like that lady on ABC News tonight, upset that her restaurant is closed by order when a movie set was right next door with the same sort of outdoor eating area that she has, it may take paying people/businesses to get compliance, just like the Cares Act did.