General COVID-19 Topic

[David in FL]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

I believe you enjoy shifting the goalposts.

You can’t have it both ways.

It’s laughable that you’re trotting out this “bad at math” line given your “reasons.”

Huh?

How did I shift goal posts?

I’m simply talking about the wasteful spending here.

36 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

This is just textbook moving the goal posts. Everybody should appreciate how good this is. First, it was "it's not convincing anyone to get the vaccine that wouldn't already." After being presented data that it did in fact improve vaccination rates, now it's a bad use of $5 million. Let's see what it will be next...

If the intent is not to incrementally increase vaccinations, then it’s simply wasteful spending.  
 

If they can prove that it actually increased vaccination rates significantly over what they would’ve been without the giveaway, then it will have been money well spent.

I don’t really believe that people who didn’t want to get jabbed before, will change their mind fo a nearly zero chance to win a million dollars though.  

Edited May 25, 2021 by David in FL

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

You genuinely believe this is a good use of $5 million?

If you take it as a given that the vaccine is effective, $5 million is a drop in the bucket compared to what Covid has already cost us.

Just think about the difference it would make for any state to have its business operating at full capacity by the fall versus something less than that or, God forbid, another big outbreak and more restrictions.  

Bemused as I am that a lottery ticket would be such a motivating factor here, I wouldn't call it a waste based on the figures they are releasing. 

[saevel25]

9 hours ago, David in FL said:

And you think the offer of a lottery ticket caused people that otherwise wouldn’t have gotten the jab to get it?

Ok.  

Maybe people are dumber than I thought!  It’s often been said that a lottery is nothing more than a tax on people who are bad at math though, so...   😂

Read the article. As soon as it was announced, there was a spike in people getting vaccines versus the trend of less and less people. 

So yes, I believe that the opportunity to get money did influence people to get the vaccine. 

How is it dumb? 

Again,

1) Very little issue for people taking the vaccine. All evidence is pointing that it is highly effective and highly safe.
2) Taking the vaccine, again has very little downside, gets you entered into a lotto "Drawing".  

Umm, not sure why people are dumb here. Unless you are saying people are dumb for taking the vaccine. Then, I now see your true opinion on this and would demand an apology. 

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

You genuinely believe this is a good use of $5 million?  You believe that doing so will drive enough incremental vaccinations to justify that cost.

Regardless of personal views on the vaccine itself, this is nothing but feel good spending...

 

If the goal is to get more people vaccinated, then yes it worked and was a good use of money. 

Quote

Where is the money coming from for the drawings and is it legal?

McCloud said that the funds being used for the lottery drawing, which come from the CARES Act, have been legally cleared to be used in this manner as it's being used to increase vaccinations and spread awareness amid the pandemic.

"It is legal to use the funds for what we're using them for," McCloud said. "It is broadly interpreted in the statute to bring awareness, to help encourage and to facilitate uptake of the vaccine."

Yes it did drive a good number of people to get the first shot. So, instead of it trending down again, it trended upward a good amount. 

Quote

- Dropped by 25% the weekend of May 7 to May 10, compared to the weekend of April 30 to May 3.
- Increased by 28% for the same age group from May 14 to May 17, the weekend following the announcement of the Vax-a-Million drawings.

 

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

If you take it as a given that the vaccine is effective, $5 million is a drop in the bucket compared to what Covid has already cost us.

Just think about the difference it would make for any state to have its business operating at full capacity by the fall versus something less than that or, God forbid, another big outbreak and more restrictions.  

Bemused as I am that a lottery ticket would be such a motivating factor here, I wouldn't call it a waste based on the figures they are releasing. 

My only question is will it actually drive an incremental increase.  It doesn’t seem likely.  The mere fact that there was a spike following the announcement doesn’t necessarily mean that the lottery drove people who wouldn’t have otherwise gotten the vaccine to decide to do so.

 

[mcanadiens]

2 minutes ago, David in FL said:

My only question is will it actually drive an incremental increase.  It doesn’t seem likely.  The mere fact that there was a spike following the announcement doesn’t necessarily mean that the lottery drove people who wouldn’t have otherwise gotten the vaccine to decide to do so.

 

Fair question. 

At least in Ohio's case there doesn't seem like any other obvious reason. Vaccinations were dropping like a rock in the early part of the month. They announce the lottery and since then they are up 28%.

If there is another reason why, I haven't heard it yet. 

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Read the article. As soon as it was announced, there was a spike in people getting vaccines versus the trend of less and less people. 

So yes, I believe that the opportunity to get money did influence people to get the vaccine. 

How is it dumb? 

Again,

1) Very little issue for people taking the vaccine. All evidence is pointing that it is highly effective and highly safe.
2) Taking the vaccine, again has very little downside, gets you entered into a lotto "Drawing".  

Umm, not sure why people are dumb here. Unless you are saying people are dumb for taking the vaccine. Then, I now see your true opinion on this and would demand an apology. 

If the goal is to get more people vaccinated, then yes it worked and was a good use of money. 

Yes it did drive a good number of people to get the first shot. So, instead of it trending down again, it trended upward a good amount. 

 

Good grief.  You’re better at math than to infer anything from a one weekend change in a trend line.  Hell, the one weekend drop the prior week might be more significant if anyone wanted to delve into the reason behind that.

This isn’t a vaccine issue for me.  It’s a question of whether it’s wasteful spending.  I guess we’ll see.

1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

Fair question. 

At least in Ohio's case there doesn't seem like any other obvious reason. Vaccinations were dropping like a rock in the early part of the month. They announce the lottery and since then they are up 28%.

If there is another reason why, I haven't heard it yet. 

I don’t know.  It’s one week.  It could be a natural correction from the prior week.  Or maybe it’s the lottery.  Time will tell...

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Huh?

How did I shift goal posts?

Gee, David, when two people call you out for the same exact thing, maybe take a second to think about how you shifted the goalposts?

30 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I’m simply talking about the wasteful spending here.

Who's to say it's "wasteful"? If by spending $5M they save even $5.1M in costs, then it's wise spending. States are spending money advertising, and this netted Ohio a ton of free advertising via news coverage.

30 minutes ago, David in FL said:

If they can prove that it actually increased vaccination rates significantly over what they would’ve been without the giveaway, then it will have been money well spent.

They've pretty much done that. And if you disagree, then you're basically asking them to prove a hypothetical that they'll never be able to have proven without some sort of parallel universe.

30 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I don’t really believe that people who didn’t want to get jabbed before, will change their mind fo a nearly zero chance to win a million dollars though.  

Then I think that says a lot about how you see this whole thing. Because I could name several people in Ohio who weren't planning to get vaccinated who signed up (and some have gotten them already) because of the $5M.

I'm sure some Ohio residents who are on the forum could name more. The people I played with on Saturday (in Ohio) told me about some, and some of the parents Natalie played golf with on Saturday/Sunday talked about it, too.

You're wrong. You had said "nobody." I can name several, as can others.

5 minutes ago, David in FL said:

My only question is will it actually drive an incremental increase. It doesn’t seem likely.  The mere fact that there was a spike following the announcement doesn’t necessarily mean that the lottery drove people who wouldn’t have otherwise gotten the vaccine to decide to do so.

Undoubtedly some of the people getting vaccinated were going to do it eventually, but nowhere near "all" of them.

1 minute ago, David in FL said:

You’re better at math…

Matt's an engineer, and understands math just fine… What we haven't seen is proof that you are any good at math (or science).

[Double Mocha Man]

40 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I’m simply talking about the wasteful spending here.

I don't think it's wasteful spending. We're talking about saving human lives here. Besides the huge emotional devastation there is the economic impact of losing productive workers, taxpayers, shoppers, etc.

Personally I would have made the lottery $25,000 to 200 different people that got vaccinated, rolling out several each week and publicizing it.  Improving the odds.

29 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

If you take it as a given that the vaccine is effective, $5 million is a drop in the bucket compared to what Covid has already cost us.

Just think about the difference it would make for any state to have its business operating at full capacity by the fall versus something less than that or, God forbid, another big outbreak and more restrictions.  

It's like having the ability to see three shots ahead when you're playing 8 ball. Thinking of it as wasting $5 million is not seeing three shots ahead.

[Double Mocha Man]

38 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

If you take it as a given that the vaccine is effective, $5 million is a drop in the bucket compared to what Covid has already cost us.

Just think about the difference it would make for any state to have its business operating at full capacity by the fall versus something less than that or, God forbid, another big outbreak and more restrictions. 

Now we need to establish a national "D-Day"  for vaccinations.  June 20th, a full two weeks before Independence Day, July 4th.  So we can all have barbecues with family and friends with no social distancing or masks.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Double Mocha Man

[David in FL]

21 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Personally I would have made the lottery $25,000 to 200 different people that got vaccinated, rolling out several each week and publicizing it.  Improving the odds.

 

Yep.  That might make more sense.

Maybe even only including those who actually got jabbed that week.  Better odds and more of a direct driver to the behavior...?

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Yep.  That might make more sense.

Maybe even only including those who actually got jabbed that week.  Better odds and more of a direct driver to the behavior...?

So, the concept of giving money out for vaccinations now sounds good? 

It would be better to give everyone a chance to get the money if you got the vaccine. The premise is, reward those who got the vaccine. Which is good. The world is run on incentives. 

[David in FL]

Just now, saevel25 said:

So, the concept of giving money out for vaccinations now sounds good? 

It would be better to give everyone a chance to get the money if you got the vaccine. The premise is, reward those who got the vaccine. Which is good. The world is run on incentives. 

Now you’re being snarky.

Go back and read what I’ve said about this!  It really isn’t that difficult to understand, and it has nothing to do with any argument for or against the vaccine!

[saevel25]

Here is what you said... 

10 hours ago, David in FL said:

Do you really think the minuscule chance to win a lottery is going to convince anybody who wasn’t already planning to get a vaccine, to get one?

I read this as, its a waste of money to put a monetary incentive on getting a vaccine since it wont get anyone to sign up. Which was proven to be an incorrect take on your part. 

Still, by the numbers....

2.7 million people have signed up for the lotto so far. 

5/2.7 million is 0.000185% chance to win

200/2.7 million is 0.0074% chance to win

More people play the lotto when the value gets very large. This is known. Get a 750 million lotto level and people start playing.

I can see the argument that you would get less people vaccinated for 25K per person versus 5 million per person. I doubt people can accurately realize the percentages well enough, and would just focus on the 25K only. That may not sway people. 

[boogielicious]

This is a brewery in my home town.

Woburn's Lord Hobo Brewing Co. To Hold 'Beer & Shot' COVID Vaccine Clinics

---

The brewing company will host pop-up vaccine clinics each Tuesday, starting on May 25, and will offer a free beer to anyone getting a COVID vaccine shot.

 

[imsys0042]

Anyone who still wants to argue about waiting to see what happens down the road, or gauge the effectiveness like you are smart enough to decipher the data yourself or any other excuse to not help out the community can go shove it at this point.

My wife and I are waiting to confirm that both our 10 year daughters have COVID, but their doctor is pretty certain since they have the same things as every other kid unfortunate enough to get it.   We’ve continued to distance, only do low risk outdoor activities and the only exception is the in-person testing at their school, otherwise they have been virtual this year.

One is just wiped out and the other is burning up with a sore throat, bad stomach and sore all over.   It took us hours to console her that she wasn’t going to die from the virus.

So really, if you want to hold out that getting the vaccine just isn’t for you, then you are dead wrong.   Everyone needs to do their part.

[mattm16]

18 hours ago, imsys0042 said:

Anyone who still wants to argue about waiting to see what happens down the road, or gauge the effectiveness like you are smart enough to decipher the data yourself or any other excuse to not help out the community can go shove it at this point.

My wife and I are waiting to confirm that both our 10 year daughters have COVID, but their doctor is pretty certain since they have the same things as every other kid unfortunate enough to get it.   We’ve continued to distance, only do low risk outdoor activities and the only exception is the in-person testing at their school, otherwise they have been virtual this year.

One is just wiped out and the other is burning up with a sore throat, bad stomach and sore all over.   It took us hours to console her that she wasn’t going to die from the virus.

So really, if you want to hold out that getting the vaccine just isn’t for you, then you are dead wrong.   Everyone needs to do their part.

I just wanted to say I hope everything turns out good for your daughters.

[imsys0042]

48 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

I just wanted to say I hope everything turns out good for your daughters.

Thank you.   The second girl started getting worse a few hours after the first.   They both broke their fevers last night and are mostly feeling wiped out with some bad congestion and mild sore throats.   The one who got it worse hit 103 at some point, and couldn’t calm herself for awhile.  We are getting them to drink as much fluids as possible and hope to get them back to normal by the weekend.   The Dr. told us to keep them home for 7 days away from other people.

[mattm16]

So my thoughts on the Ohio Lottery.  Yes, I understand the number of people who got the vaccine went up.  That part is un disputable.  However, we will never know if all of them got the vaccine to enter the lottery, unless they are asked.  I'm sure some did.  I'm also sure that others were already planning on getting it.  Maybe the week before was just lower, who knows?  Also, I'm assuming these numbers included the 2nd dose, so maybe the numbers were higher due to that (first dose people, and the time for the 2nd dose people).  

I also have a history of headaches and take the once a month Emgality.  Ever since by 2nd dose (2 weeks now) I have had a solid headache, muscle and arm pain.  Could it be the shot?  Yes, it could.  It also could be something else though.