General COVID-19 Topic

[iacas]

CNN Fires Three Employees For Going Into Office Without Covid Vaccinations

Unvaccinated People Need to Bear the Burden - The Atlantic

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Beyond limiting the coronavirus’s flow from hot spots to the rest of the country, allowing only vaccinated people on domestic flights will change minds, too.

 

[imsys0042]

19 minutes ago, iacas said:

CNN Fires Three Employees For Going Into Office Without Covid Vaccinations

Unvaccinated People Need to Bear the Burden - The Atlantic

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Beyond limiting the coronavirus’s flow from hot spots to the rest of the country, allowing only vaccinated people on domestic flights will change minds, too.

 

What I’ve read is that cnn requires vaccination if you come into the office and they weren’t, so I guess this is the right thing to do.  We are faced with a very difficult situation and we need everyone to pitch in.  Flying on an airplane, going to a crowded nightclub or concert or many of the things we do is not a right, it’s a privilege based on a private company offering up something.  They have the right to request saftey for their employees and other customers.    Vaccine has been given to millions of people without incident, just go if you haven’t already.  

[mattm16]

I read a story on www.mlive.com that reports that some students of colleges are purchasing fake vaccine cards to avoid testing and admission requirements.

Out of curiosity, if the companies that are mandating an employee to have the vaccine, they cannot enforce that in a state such as Florida, correct?  Florida prohibits a business to require the vaccine.  

[StuM]

I agree with this, why should my insurance rates go up to cover the cost of care of a person who chooses not to get the vaccine.  They made the choice, they pay the cost of that choice.

Opinion: Don’t want the COVID-19 vaccine? Then pay the full cost if you land in the hospital - MarketWatch

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Much of the argument about lockdowns and mask mandates boils down to disagreements about the level of risk that’s appropriate to impose on others and how...

 

[saevel25]

9 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

I read a story on www.mlive.com that reports that some students of colleges are purchasing fake vaccine cards to avoid testing and admission requirements.

Out of curiosity, if the companies that are mandating an employee to have the vaccine, they cannot enforce that in a state such as Florida, correct?  Florida prohibits a business to require the vaccine.  

Depends on the state you live in. It's not a federal law. Though, there is some interpretations of certain federal regulations that someone could make a case for. 

 

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, mattm16 said:

Out of curiosity, if the companies that are mandating an employee to have the vaccine, they cannot enforce that in a state such as Florida, correct?  Florida prohibits a business to require the vaccine.  

I'm going to guess that there will be lawsuits to challenge the "right" of the state to enact and enforce such laws.  Its something of a conflict in my mind, the regulations are promulgated in the name of individual rights, yet they deny private business and property owners the right to take certain actions to maintain a safe space.  My hope is that these state laws are challenged and overturned, but I don't know.

As for counterfeit vaccination cards, people have used counterfeit documents of one kind or another ever since documents were invented.  This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.  Of course, if the fakes are discovered, it shouldn't surprise the guilty students to find themselves looking for a new college to attend.

[nevets88]

2 hours ago, mattm16 said:

I read a story on www.mlive.com that reports that some students of colleges are purchasing fake vaccine cards to avoid testing and admission requirements.

Out of curiosity, if the companies that are mandating an employee to have the vaccine, they cannot enforce that in a state such as Florida, correct?  Florida prohibits a business to require the vaccine.  

Those fake cards have been on Amazon (I guess before eventually being taken off?) since the inception of the real cards. Every time I see something related to passports, I always wonder the percentage of fake passports or vaccination cards.

[imsys0042]

2 hours ago, mattm16 said:

I read a story on www.mlive.com that reports that some students of colleges are purchasing fake vaccine cards to avoid testing and admission requirements.

Out of curiosity, if the companies that are mandating an employee to have the vaccine, they cannot enforce that in a state such as Florida, correct?  Florida prohibits a business to require the vaccine.  

I believe that Florida banned vaccine passports or requirements that customers show proof of vaccine.   Businesses requiring employees to be vaccinated is different and gets into a different issue.   As it currently stands, Disney is requiring a lot of employees to be vaccinated or do regular testing.   I doubt they didn’t consider the standing laws.  Florida’s laws against requiring proof of vaccination are already poorly thought out, because you are interfering with how a private business chooses to serve customers.   You are essentially taking away their choice of not being exposed, or having people exposed away.   Open to debate against other things like requiring shoes, shirts etc.   I know which side I fall on.   A lot of this is political theater as well.   
 

these statewide mandates go against letting local communities decide, which is what states decry themselves, so it’s pretty hypocritical.   A school in a highly vaccinated area should choose differently than a lowly vaccinated one, but the statewide laws take away their choice.

[mattm16]

8 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

I believe that Florida banned vaccine passports or requirements that customers show proof of vaccine.   Businesses requiring employees to be vaccinated is different and gets into a different issue.   As it currently stands, Disney is requiring a lot of employees to be vaccinated or do regular testing.   I doubt they didn’t consider the standing laws.  Florida’s laws against requiring proof of vaccination are already poorly thought out, because you are interfering with how a private business chooses to serve customers.   You are essentially taking away their choice of not being exposed, or having people exposed away.   Open to debate against other things like requiring shoes, shirts etc.   I know which side I fall on.   A lot of this is political theater as well.   
 

these statewide mandates go against letting local communities decide, which is what states decry themselves, so it’s pretty hypocritical.   A school in a highly vaccinated area should choose differently than a lowly vaccinated one, but the statewide laws take away their choice.

I look at requiring shirts, shoes, different, due to the fact that isn't medical information.  Now, if a business want's to require a mask, that's fine.  You don't want to wear a mask, then you don't shop there, or do something like curb side pickup.  I don't think they should be asking medical information from a person.  If they allow that, what's next?  Ask about a pre existing condition?  

[StuM]

2 hours ago, mattm16 said:

I read a story on www.mlive.com that reports that some students of colleges are purchasing fake vaccine cards to avoid testing and admission requirements.

Out of curiosity, if the companies that are mandating an employee to have the vaccine, they cannot enforce that in a state such as Florida, correct?  Florida prohibits a business to require the vaccine.  

I'm not sure if this comes into play or not but my understanding has been a business can impose a "bono fide occupational qualification" in employment decisions as long as it does not violate certain protections such as you cannot discriminate based on race, gender, age, disability or religion.  If they could say being vaccinated is necessary to provide a safe environment for employees and clientele that may give them the ability to require vaccinations.

Also, businesses have always had the right to place reasonable restrictions on who they service, ie "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" or how a golf course can mandate a collard shirt.

NOTE: I'm not an attorney, just talking off the top of my head.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, StuM said:

how a golf course can mandate a collard shirt.

... would that need to be a collard green shirt?

[imsys0042]

14 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

I look at requiring shirts, shoes, different, due to the fact that isn't medical information.  Now, if a business want's to require a mask, that's fine.  You don't want to wear a mask, then you don't shop there, or do something like curb side pickup.  I don't think they should be asking medical information from a person.  If they allow that, what's next?  Ask about a pre existing condition?  

What if your customers can kill you, your family or other people?   That’s what we are up against.   There are a lot of people who want to be able to go somewhere and be around vaccinated people for their protection.   And again, it’s the person running the business making a choice and accepting the repercussions or rewards.  

[Double Mocha Man]

I've been reading this Covid-19 thread for as long as the pandemic's been around.  The comments on here are usually pretty knowledgeable, uttered by fairly smart and educated folks.

Wondering if our forum population skews more toward vaccination than the general public???  Over 70% vaccinated with at least one shot.  I would guess we're in the 80th percentile, fully vaccinated.  I know we're not 100%.

Someone should start a poll.

[DaveP043]

20 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

I look at requiring shirts, shoes, different, due to the fact that isn't medical information.  Now, if a business want's to require a mask, that's fine.  You don't want to wear a mask, then you don't shop there, or do something like curb side pickup.  I don't think they should be asking medical information from a person.  If they allow that, what's next?  Ask about a pre existing condition?  

Most pre-existing conditions have very little potential to make ME sick.  I can understand that a business may want to be as certain as they reasonably can that their employees and patrons are safe, and requiring proof of vaccination is one tool to do that.  You don't have to divulge any medical information if you choose not to.  They don't have to allow you on their private property if they choose not to.  Each of you makes your own choices, each of you has  their rights preserved that way.  

And before anyone brings up HIPAA, we should understand that HIPPA is there to prevent health care providers from sharing medical information about their patients without permission.  It has nothing to do with employers or businesses asking about vaccination status of their employees or patrons.

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

And before anyone brings up HIPAA, we should understand that HIPPA is there to prevent health care providers from sharing medical information about their patients without permission.  It has nothing to do with employers or businesses asking about vaccination status of their employees or patrons.

Though, there are certain questions employers can not ask about a person's health. Most believe you can ask if someone is vaccinated against COVID, but anything further than that is some gray area that could bring in law interpretation. 

With regard to firing people who are not vaccinated or refuse to get vaccinated. Depending on the state, you may see more legal action taken against employers. 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

With regard to firing people who are not vaccinated or refuse to get vaccinated. Depending on the state, you may see more legal action taken against employers. 

This is a bit flippant but I think employees may fire themselves after they're asked to do 2 Covid tests per week, at a distant site, and at their own expense.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

This is a bit flippant but I think employees may fire themselves after they're asked to do 2 Covid tests per week, at a distant site, and at their own expense.

Tough to say if that is going to be covered by health insurance or not. You can't start going into the territory of discrimination. Like saying, "Well, people who got the vaccine get free testing, but those who have no don't". Especially, when they have the same health benefits plan. Especially if there are unions involved. You are talking about way more of a hassle for the company that could cost them way more money and waste of time than just giving them free tests. 

[Shindig]

1 hour ago, mattm16 said:

I look at requiring shirts, shoes, different, due to the fact that isn't medical information.  Now, if a business want's to require a mask, that's fine.  You don't want to wear a mask, then you don't shop there, or do something like curb side pickup.  I don't think they should be asking medical information from a person.  If they allow that, what's next?  Ask about a pre existing condition?  

I have seen a few shops around here with signs that say they require non-vaccinated shoppers to wear a mask, and by entering without one, you're asserting (this might not be the word they use -- I can check if anyone is interested) that you're fully vaccinated. 

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Most pre-existing conditions have very little potential to make ME sick.  I can understand that a business may want to be as certain as they reasonably can that their employees and patrons are safe, and requiring proof of vaccination is one tool to do that.  You don't have to divulge any medical information if you choose not to.  They don't have to allow you on their private property if they choose not to.  Each of you makes your own choices, each of you has  their rights preserved that way.  

And before anyone brings up HIPAA, we should understand that HIPPA is there to prevent health care providers from sharing medical information about their patients without permission.  It has nothing to do with employers or businesses asking about vaccination status of their employees or patrons.

To add to the last paragraph:  the last two words of the title are "Accountability Act."  That's a pretty good indicator of the purpose:  it isn't to prevent anyone from discussing anything medical, it's to prevent people with access to others' privilege information from releasing it.  It also helps to remember whether it's HIPAA or HIPPA. 

For example, I am not a medical professional, so discussing a celebrity's vaccination status isn't a violation of HIPAA for me.  Their medical doctor probably can't discuss it (I don't know how it relates if the information is already public).  So when I say that Kirk Cousins should get vaccinated so he'll know when to spike protein, I'm not violating HIPAA by doing so.  The worst I'm doing with that is trying to force a joke into a serious conversation.