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21 minutes ago, iacas said:

I already knew this, but it was depressing to see the visualization of I'm getting the vaccine after like 90% of Americans 😠

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

I posted elsehwere, but I wonder why they have young adults and children ahead of a 50-year-old?

Isn't the 50yo more likely to develop more severe symptoms, require hospitalization, and/or die?

Yeah honestly they have the whole thing backwards. Health and essential workers to the front for sure. But after that it should be by ordered to maximize years of life saved. Of course, that would conveniently put me near the front of the line... I haven't done the calculations but my guess given the mortality by age and number of likely years of life left, that would put 40 and 50 somethings at the front of the general population line, which would include, me :-)

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In the mean time, I would think there would be no question any more about how to avoid it.

If you are 65 or over, stay at home.  If you are under 65, stay at home.

If you cannot do #1, not limited to just the following, avoid people anywhere and everywhere, wear a mask, wash your hands frequently, use disinfectant and hand sanitizer, avoid contact with "high touch" surfaces, and don't touch your eyes, nose and mouth.

mdl:  Tell them Ole Duffer said you can have his vaccine.  I'll just keep doing the right things, and see how it goes.

😷

Another of my wife's extended family members passed away in the distant hospital they were shipped off to.

 

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33 minutes ago, iacas said:

I posted elsehwere, but I wonder why they have young adults and children ahead of a 50-year-old?

Maybe because they tend to spread the virus more.  My logic here is that young adults think they are essentially immune or they believe if they contract the coronavirus it'll be mild.  So they tend to be less careful.  Children, if we're going to get them back in school can spread the virus to teachers and administrators.    50 year old men and women understand the dangers and are more careful.  Seems unfair but in the "big picture" it seems rational.

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16 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

If you are 65 or over, stay at home.  If you are under 65, stay at home.

So are you going to pay everyone to stay at home and not work?

Look, there has to be some sort of practical balance here, particularly if you're not a high risk category, you don't often see high risk category people at home, etc.

I wear my mask everywhere. I don't go out much at all, except when really necessary. I played golf on Black Friday… I drove myself there, paid quickly with my mask on, and spent the rest of the time outside, before driving home by myself. I got gas on the way out… staying outside at the pump.

It's obvious that TV shows and some other things were ramped up over the past few months. They're starting to show some shows, though they're often filmed with protections in place. I've seen on All Rise, for example, actors wearing face masks and with shields and plexiglass in the court rooms, etc. That's not all just for show, though it does make for more timely shows. Some shows try to "pretend" they're in a post-COVID world, but you can still see that there are fewer extras, the actors are farther apart, etc. And I'm sure they're tested somewhat regularly, too.

I worry about the holidays and the number of people that will travel. I worry about COVID fatigue. I worry that people will see that we have a vaccine and, rather than saying "we only need to hold out for another 3 or 4 months (or whatever)," that they'll say "yay, it's going to be over!" and let their guard (and masks) down.

But let's not over-react, either. An abundance of caution is one thing. An abundance of fear is another thing entirely.

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16 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Did you use a paper towel to hold the pump handle?  Sounds like you did everything right.

No. The chances of the virus being spread by contact, outside at a gas station with 32 pumps where I was the only one even there at the time, are basically 0.

Obama, Bush, Clinton to take vaccines publicly to bolster faith in the vaccine: https://twitter.com/i/events/1334491764825067520

If you read up on this vaccine, you'll see it's kinda unlike almost any other, and should be pretty darn safe. If you're eligible to be vaccinated, GET IT. Do yourself and those around you the favor of being responsible.

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15 hours ago, Ole Duffer said:

In the mean time, I would think there would be no question any more about how to avoid it.

If you are 65 or over, stay at home.  If you are under 65, stay at home.

If you cannot do #1, not limited to just the following, avoid people anywhere and everywhere, wear a mask, wash your hands frequently, use disinfectant and hand sanitizer, avoid contact with "high touch" surfaces, and don't touch your eyes, nose and mouth.

mdl:  Tell them Ole Duffer said you can have his vaccine.  I'll just keep doing the right things, and see how it goes.

😷

Another of my wife's extended family members passed away in the distant hospital they were shipped off to.

 

First and foremost, I am sorry for you and wife's loss.  My heart goes out to you.

I can't stay at home.  I have no choice I will lose everything.  I will go bankrupt.  

My wife and I own our business, either we produce and sell or everything is gone.  At 58 there is no more rebuilding, we have had to that to many times.  We have starred down bankruptcy multiple times and saved our house from foreclosure 3 times already.  This time there would be no coming back.

Our company is considered an "essential industry" so the State would not shut us down.

Also due to the nature of our business when I am called I travel.  Either that or we do not get the business.  It will go elsewhere.

While I understand your statement and where it is coming from.

I do let people outside of my circle at home know I have been traveling and where so they can tell me if they want to see me or not.

As it is I was not around my Mother for Thanksgiving and due to travel I will not see her for Christmas.  It is very painful and depressing, she is 82 and we are very close.  But we both know it is for the best. 

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Maybe I'm a bit paranoid but why take chances?  There's this:  "New England Journal of Medicine study explored the virus’ lifespan on different surfaces. The study found that the virus is detectable on plastic – the material most gas pump handles are made of – for up to 72 hours."

And this:   "Snopes and Health Feedback investigated the claim and found it to be partly false. Snopes explained: “Gas pumps are just one of many objects that multiple people commonly handle in similar fashion during the course of a day, including ATMs, payment processing systems, shopping cart handles and currency, all of which pose varying degrees of risk."

Granted, surfaces are not the main spreader of the virus.  But again, why take chances?

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20 minutes ago, djake said:

First and foremost, I am sorry for you and wife's loss.  My heat goes out to you.

I can't stay at home.  I have no choice I will lose everything.  I will go bankrupt.  

My wife and I own our business, either we produce and sell or everything is gone.  At 58 there is no more rebuilding, we have had to that to many times.  We have starred down bankruptcy multiple times and saved our house from foreclosure 3 times already.  This time there would be no coming back.

Our company is considered an "essential industry" so the State would not shut us down.

Also due to the nature of our business when I am called I travel.  Either that or we do not get the business.  It will go elsewhere.

While I understand your statement and where it is coming from.

I do let people outside of my circle at home know I have been traveling and where so they can tell me if they want to see me or not.

As it is I was not around my Mother for Thanksgiving and due to travel I will not see her for Christmas.  It is very painful and depressing, she is 82 and we are very close.  But we both know it is for the best. 

With great empathy, I've thought a lot about all the people who cannot stay at home, and how at-risk they are every day.

I have thoughts in that regard, but . . . . 

We also heard from one of our Florida neighbors yesterday.  She and her 85-ish mother, who lives her, tested positive.

They are not deny-ers, but made some bad choices on their drive down from Wisconsin, stopping to see relatives along the way like normal.


Now that I think about it, when we ran our business, we did shows that 1000s of people attended.  So, that would not be happening.

But, I totally understand that some people have to put themselves at risk every day, and be put in situations that they are not in control of.

It's a shame that it's that way.

Edited by Ole Duffer
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18 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid but why take chances?  There's this:  "New England Journal of Medicine study explored the virus’ lifespan on different surfaces. The study found that the virus is detectable on plastic – the material most gas pump handles are made of – for up to 72 hours."

Viral load matters quite a bit, the pumps are outside, and a bunch of other factors, including that I have a bottle of hand sanitizer in my car.

20 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

But again, why take chances?

Because, again, 0.000001% may as well be 1%.

Why do you ever leave your house if you're not willing to risk 0.0001% chance of anything happening?

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7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Viral load matters quite a bit, the pumps are outside, and a bunch of other factors, including that I have a bottle of hand sanitizer in my car.

Because, again, 0.000001% may as well be 1%.

Why do you ever leave your house if you're not willing to risk 0.0001% chance of anything happening?

I don't buy that there's only a 0.0001% risk.  Where did that number come from?  I leave my home a lot... groceries, outdoor cocktails (downwind and 10 feet from friends), golf course every day, walks, bicycle rides, a take out burrito today from Casa que Pasa and for gas.  All calculated risks.  It's sort of fun to know... that the next time you reach for the gas pump handle you'll think of good ol' DMM.

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Just now, Double Mocha Man said:

I don't buy that there's only a 0.0001% risk.  Where did that number come from?  I leave my home a lot... groceries, outdoor cocktails (downwind and 10 feet from friends), golf course every day, walks, bicycle rides, a take out burrito today from Casa que Pasa and for gas.  It's sort of fun to know... that the next time you reach for the gas pump handle you'll think of good ol' DMM.

I made it up. But let's see…

For me to contract COVID-19 by touching the handle of a gas pump twice:

  • The handle would have had to have been touched by an infected person within the past few hours. There were 32 gas pumps and I was the only car at the station, at about 8:45am.
  • That person would have basically had to slobber on the handle to get anywhere near enough viral load onto the handle. I'm unaware of a handle-of-gas-pump-licking fetish, but maybe it exists.
  • I would have had to get virtually all of that viral load on my hand in a few seconds.
  • I would have then had a HUGE failure of my sanitizer to do ANYTHING to remove the virus from my hands.
  • I would have then had to lick my hand or something to get all of the virus that remained.

0.0001% was probably high.

If you wanted to try to figure out the actual number, you'd have to start here: what % of the population currently has COVID-19 and is unaware and out and about? It's not like that number is even 5%.

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45 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

With great empathy, I've thought a lot about all the people who cannot stay at home, and how at-risk they are every day.

I have thoughts in that regard, but . . . . 

We also heard from one of our Florida neighbors yesterday.  She and her 85-ish mother, who lives her, tested positive.

They are not deny-ers, but made some bad choices on their drive down from Wisconsin, stopping to see relatives along the way like normal.


Now that I think about it, when we ran our business, we did shows that 1000s of people attended.  So, that would not be happening.

But, I totally understand that some people have to put themselves at risk every day, and be put in situations that they are not in control of.

It's a shame that it's that way.

Honestly, I am not worried about it.  I am not scarred of COVID.  I respect everyone's opinion.

I work in hospitals from the smallest to the largest one's in the country.  I deal with infectious control to EVS.  From NYC to California during this pandemic.  I know how they feel about it from an internal point of view.  

I was more concerned about my safety when I crossed the border in the 1990's to work in Tijuana then going into any hospital in this country today.  I have and still go into the most dangerous parts of any city in this country and have done so since the 1990's as well as foreign countries.  Nothing catches your attention faster then staring at an M60 Machine Gun pointed directly at the van you are in.

COVID is a virus, it does not scare me.  I understand other people's fear of it and respect that.  There are a lot more deadly situations I can come into contact with that a mask and washing my hands frequently will not help.

You seam to be a really nice guy.  Hopefully when this calms down and it will we can meet and play golf together.  I would really enjoy that.

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16 hours ago, Ole Duffer said:

Another of my wife's extended family members passed away in the distant hospital they were shipped off to.

 

My wife's family is all still in the very rural County where she grew up. It is largely deny-ers going about things like normal.  When we came back from FL in April, there were no cases; now there are 500.  They only test symptomatic, so who knows the actual number, but the positivity rate is 20%.  

We know of 5 who have died, and since a lot of people are related, I have been doing research to see where they are in her family.  The County has a nice website, but it is only showing 2 deaths, up from 1 two days ago, so that speaks to the credibility of the site.

Pillars of the community are infected, but take no precautions.  The owner of the hardware store has it, does not allow the store to have a mask mandate, and scoffs at anyone wearing one.

Personal Choice is not an effective way to fight a pandemic.

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31 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

Personal Choice is not an effective way to fight a pandemic.

My friend’s dad and step mom are covid deniers, and started to develop some symptoms a couple weeks ago. The step mom is having a tough time going through chemo so one of their daughters is having to take care of them. The daughter then started to get sick, got tested, and got a positive result for coronavirus.
 

Needless to say my friend is really pissed off. They had canceled thanksgiving over whether covid was real and election results. The dad and step mom still refuse to believe they have something other than a cold and won’t go get tested. I couldn’t imagine being my friend in this situation. 

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49 minutes ago, phillyk said:

My friend’s dad and step mom are covid deniers,

This is the stuff i don't get. To me this is like the flat-earthers. 

How about this, just call it The 2020-Flu. They might take it more seriously with re-branding. 

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I really don't understand how anyone could "deny" that it is a legit thing. Your opinion is your opinion on some things but not believing it is real is just not factual.

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