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billchao

How Would You Play This Hole (#5, Links at Firestone Farms)

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  1. 1. Assuming you can carry your driver at least 265yd, with a severe headwind, how would you play this hole to shoot the lowest score on average?



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21 hours ago, Cantankerish said:

265 would be a sightly short drive for me in no wind but you had plenty, and there is not much punishment for going too long anyway.  I like my odds of NOT hitting the ball in Bill's black zone on the right since I do not really fade my drives.  My miss is a pull or if it's really bad, a pull hook. The giant sand trap is made to catch fools like myself, but I am fine with that too.  Still, there is no way I am counting on hitting a landing zone the size of that green.

I do not know if this is the smartest play, but I would split the difference in a scenario like this...

Driver pointed between the last bunker and the left edge of the green every time until I learn my lesson.

 

20 hours ago, iacas said:

Yeah, not too bad.

There is some terrible stuff around the green. Your Shot Zone with the driver is going to be significantly larger than the green itself.

Beat me to it. I was going to ask Cantankerish if he'd ever played there, since his statement of not much punishment for going too long is dead wrong! There are places on this course where, if you hit your ball in there, just forget it! You can't even go in there to look for it! Behind that green is one of them.

I just take dead aim at the bunker straightaway through the fairway. Depending on the tee, a 3 or 5 wood will put me right in the elbow, with a wide open wedge to the green.

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21 hours ago, Cantankerish said:

265 would be a sightly short drive for me in no wind but you had plenty, and there is not much punishment for going too long anyway.

You can't see it in the Google Earth pictures, but the rough behind the green is a hill. You'd be faced with a significantly downhill pitch shot if you miss long, which could result in a pitch shot that rolls off the green into the penalty area.

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5 minutes ago, billchao said:

You can't see it in the Google Earth pictures, but the rough behind the green is a hill. You'd be faced with a significantly downhill pitch shot if you miss long, which could result in a pitch shot that rolls off the green into the penalty area.

Too bad you didn't get a pic from the tee box and green. I think these type of threads would be enhanced with photos instead of just the overhead.

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4 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Too bad you didn't get a pic from the tee box and green. I think these type of threads would be enhanced with photos instead of just the overhead.

Didn't think about it at the time. Spent most of the time on the tee watching your group play and wondering what I was going to hit in that wind.

It probably wouldn't have shown the elevation changes all that well anyway.

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9 minutes ago, billchao said:

Didn't think about it at the time. Spent most of the time on the tee watching your group play and wondering what I was going to hit in that wind.

We weren’t THAT slow. That was one of my few pars. 😝

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Just now, CarlSpackler said:

We weren’t THAT slow. That was one of my few pars. 😝

It wasn't you guys that were slow, but we caught up with you on the tee, remember?

Plus I needed to wait for the green to clear ;-)

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1 hour ago, billchao said:

It wasn't you guys that were slow, but we caught up with you on the tee, remember?

Plus I needed to wait for the green to clear ;-)

I’m old. I have trouble remembering things. 🤣

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16 hours ago, iacas said:

Correct, but for the sake of simplification.

You list your handicap as ~29. If accurate, you don't leave many holes with even bogey when you play them with any strategy, so I'm not sure what you're saying here…? You should be afraid of the bunker.

From 40 yards in the sand, PGA Tour players average 2.82, FWIW:

 

I don’t have an official correct hcp at the moment but my garmin has me at 18,8. And if I see correctly it’s still a greenside bunker so the shot should be closer to 20 yards not 40? My bunker play is definitely better than my hcp would indicate. It very rarely happens that I don’t finish on the green from any greenside bunker shot. And a majority of the time I’m in easy 2 putt range. 

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1 hour ago, Killa said:

And if I see correctly it’s still a greenside bunker so the shot should be closer to 20 yards not 40?

The nearest edge of the big bunker is 25yd from the center of the green and the one on the bunker straight down the fairway is 30yd from the center of the green, so you’re looking at a 30-40yd bunker shot at minimum.

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2 hours ago, Killa said:

I don’t have an official correct hcp at the moment but my garmin has me at 18,8. And if I see correctly it’s still a greenside bunker so the shot should be closer to 20 yards not 40? My bunker play is definitely better than my hcp would indicate. It very rarely happens that I don’t finish on the green from any greenside bunker shot. And a majority of the time I’m in easy 2 putt range. 

Yeah:

image.png

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15 hours ago, billchao said:

Didn't think about it at the time. Spent most of the time on the tee watching your group play and wondering what I was going to hit in that wind.

It probably wouldn't have shown the elevation changes all that well anyway.

Yeah, that changes the calculus some.  Hardspoon's second photo makes the green look like it slopes away from everything into an abyss, though it looks level in the first.  The satellite image is a laughably poor measure for any of that.  With the green at the low point of the hole, and nothing beyond it, it places a premium on the approach shot.  Maybe it's a good hole to be a left-hander on.

I dunno.  I might still go with my first idea.  It's fun to think about.

I really love a well-crafted hole like this.  I had to take either music appreciation or art appreciation in college.  I think I would have preferred something to educate me on hole design.

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Driver for me and aim exactly at were @klineka finished his 3 iron.
If I hit it straigth i'll be left to the green with 50% birdie chance.
If I miss it right I will be on the green, or with and easy chip/pitch. 75% birdie chance.
If I miss it left I will be on the rough with a 50 yard shot. Same chance of bogey/birdie. 
With this strategy i guess that after 4 rounds of a tournament i can finish the hole -1.

Laying up...
If I hit it straigth i'll be on the fairway with a 50 yard shot with 25% birdie chance.
If I miss it right I will be on the sand with a 50 yard shot thats 25% more chance of bogeys than birdies.
If I miss it left I will be on the rough with a 70 yard shot. Same chance of bogey/birdie.
With this strategy i guess that after 4 rounds of a tournament i can finish the hole Even.

Driver all year long!    

 

 

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