Race and Inclusion in America and Beyond

[GolfLug]

In comparison to blacks to other minorities like Asians and Indian immigrants (I am Indian born and let's just say I fit the stereotype in some of the posts to a T), I would say that if you had a larger sampling of socio-economic and parental backgrounds that absolutely exists in these respective countries and had we made it here couple of three hundred years ago, the narrative would be different. History matters.

In other words, it's not a fair comparison. From my perspective we must go out of the way to overpower the narrative towards blacks. With great urgency, that is. 

Edited June 13, 2020 by GolfLug

[boogielicious]

18 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

In comparison to blacks to other minorities like Asians and Indian immigrants (I am Indian born and let's just say I fit the stereotype in some of the posts to a T), I would say that if you had a larger sampling of socio-economic and parental backgrounds that absolutely exists in these respective countries and had we made it here couple of three hundred years ago, the narrative would be different. History matters.

In other words, it's not a fair comparison. From my perspective we must go out of the way to overpower the narrative towards blacks. With great urgency, that is. 

Agree, but let’s not bring immigration into he thread. We are trying to stay on topic.

[GolfLug]

5 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Agree, but let’s not bring immigration into he thread. We are trying to stay on topic.

Scott, yes, I am trying to convey that immigration should not matter in the BLM discussion. I know it is off topic but it was brought up quite a few times and diluted the OP conversation and felt I had to say something from a first-hand perspective.

Anyway, hope it won't come up again. I certainly won't bring it up. 

[ghalfaire]

I have read most of the posts on this thread.  I will say that I believe Black Lives Matter and there clearly is a problem in the US that needs solving.  Having said that I comment the Black Lives Matter is a political organization and so I don't really know how to speak to this issue without politics which is banned on this forum.  So I will retire and just repeat that Black lives do matter and hopefully we as a society can come to some consensus solution in country.

[saevel25]

14 minutes ago, ghalfaire said:

Having said that I comment the Black Lives Matter is a political organization and so I don't really know how to speak to this issue without politics which is banned on this forum.  So I will retire and just repeat that Black lives do matter and hopefully we as a society can come to some consensus solution in country.

That feels like a cop-out. I can have a discussion about race and it will not be political. People choose to make topics political to bring in tribalistic mentality. 
 

I disagree that BLM is a political organization. The concept of BLM has been hijacked by the media to make advertisement money. It’s been hijacked by people who want to get political gain, but it isn’t a political organization like the Democratic Party. 

[Let it Fly]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

I disagree that BLM is a political organization. The concept of BLM has been hijacked by the media to make advertisement money. It’s been hijacked by people who want to get political gain, but it isn’t a political organization like the Democratic Party. 

Tough to fully embrace this when the "Donate" function on the BLM website itself takes you to ActBlue.com...a campaign fundraising arm for the Democrat party.    

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, Let it Fly said:

Tough to fully embrace this when the "Donate" function on the BLM website itself takes you to ActBlue.com...a campaign fundraising arm for the Democrat party.    

Who created BLM website? Are the good faith actors for the grass roots BLM movement? Did they Hijack the term for some other gain? See were this is going? 

The Democratic Party could have, and probably did set up the BLM website to get the political gain from it. That doesn't mean that those on the street have anything to do with it. They could see no benefit from it at all. It would be interesting to see the list of donors on that website. 

[Bonvivant]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

That feels like a cop-out. I can have a discussion about race and it will not be political.

The whole BLM movement is trying to change policies, and therefore is political by definition.

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

The whole BLM movement is trying to change policies, and therefore is political by definition.

They are trying to change how Black people are treated unfairly in society. It's not a political movement, it a civil movement. Again, these things can or can not be political. 

[Bonvivant]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

They are trying to change how Black people are treated unfairly in society. It's not a political movement, it a civil movement. Again, these things can or can not be political. 

That's part of it, but the movement intends to do that through policy. It is a political movement. Is there a way to hide threads so that I can't see it anymore?

[colin007]

9 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

That's part of it, but the movement intends to do that through policy. It is a political movement. Is there a way to hide threads so that I can't see it anymore?

This issue is on you. Choose not to look at it. 

[DrvFrShow]

Claim: More than 72% of black children are born out of wedlock.

Who said it: Don Lemon

Fact Check: True.

This is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. 

[Papa Steve 55]

1 hour ago, Bonvivant said:

The whole BLM movement is trying to change policies, and therefore is political by definition.

I'm not getting this. Which existing policies are they trying to change that are not allowing them to be treated as equals?

Edited June 13, 2020 by Papa Steve 55

[Bonvivant]

Just now, Papa Steve 55 said:

I'm not getting this. Which existing policies are they trying to change that are not allowing them to be treated as equals?

Law enforcement policies is the big one.

[saevel25]

33 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

Claim: More than 72% of black children are born out of wedlock.

Who said it: Don Lemon

Fact Check: True.

This is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. 

That is true, but it's also true that birth rates mirror safety and income. 

If you look at the developed world, countries with more income per capita have lower birth rates. We feel more safe and well off so our need to produce children goes down. There is a phenomena that after big disasters, like war, typhoons, etc.. that children born go up. Families feel the need to replace the population. 

I could make the claim that poverty promotes the need to have children. Of course there are some exploitable social programs as well. I don't think taking away the tax credit for children is going to lower the children out of wedlock stat. 

Raising their social economic status will probably have an impact on that number. 

[colin007]

57 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

Claim: More than 72% of black children are born out of wedlock.

Who said it: Don Lemon

Fact Check: True.

This is the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about. 

So this means that black lives don't matter??

[DrvFrShow]

And wow... no, it means just the opposite, but you can make whatever assumption you want to virtue signal. 

I wasn't even talking about social programs. 

What are the results here for urban areas?

1) lower incomes - and day care is expensive, but grandma can take care of the kids, right? Oh she's working too.

2) lower incomes mean lower tax revenues

3) lower tax revenues mean lower property values

4) lower property values mean lousy school districts

Do you see where this leads? And then throw in the War on Drugs, the 1994 Crime Bill, gangs (but some cities don't even call them that anymore - that problem is solved - it's just teens running around with guns shooting each other over turf)

Morgan Freeman said something like "Stop calling me black and I'll stop calling you white. We can start there."

[saevel25]

Maybe a different look on police using lethal force (or causing death) by race. 

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf

On non-lethal encounters there seems to be a racial issue. 

Quote

Even when officers report civilians have been compliant and no arrest was made, blacks are 21.2 percent more likely to endure some form of force in an interaction. 

On extreme use of force,

Quote

Yet, on the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we are unable to detect any racial differences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls.

 

Edited June 13, 2020 by saevel25