Talking to a Competitor About Their Shot Before They Hit

[pganapathy]

I really don't care about trash talking.  You can say anything to me, personal or otherwise, and I couldn't care less.  I will either ignore it or use it as fuel.  What pisses me off is people disturbing me when I am hitting the shot.  Making noise deliberately during my swing is the one no-no

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Ruler said:

So, if a player continuously coughs, shouts or claps hands when another player is hitting their ball with the intention of causing that player to shoot poorly there is nothing in the Rules to make him stop nor should there be? Is that what you guys are saying?

That’s not even remotely close to what anyone is saying, no.

[Esox]

When I was in my 20's a buddy and I got matched up with a pair of guys in their 40's. They were decent players, both claimed a 4-6 handicap. I was scratch, my buddy was a 14. A friendly wager was made, then one of the guys started his gamesmanship. All sorts of snide comments. By the 7th hole I had had enough. We were standing on the tee when I (making sure he could hear me) commented to my buddy "I don't get how he makes solid contact with that over the top move." 6 was the last hole he found a fairway...........

[Shindig]

6 hours ago, Ruler said:

So, if a player continuously coughs, shouts or claps hands when another player is hitting their ball with the intention of causing that player to shoot poorly there is nothing in the Rules to make him stop nor should there be? Is that what you guys are saying?

It is very fortunate that such situations occur extremely seldom. Also serious misconducts occur very very seldom and yet there is a Rule how to handle such situations. Furthermore the Committee has been given tools in the form of Code of Conduct to address less severe misconduct as well. Why should purposeful distracting and disturbing of other competitors be fenced out? 

Assuming this is even happening with anything approaching regularity, if you think there should be a rule, why not propose a wording for it?

This is the same problem we have when people say they should be allowed free relief from divots in the fairway.  If you have a proposal for a rule, go ahead and try to define the situation.  Let's start with that.  Someone was asked upthread to define the situation and couldn't even do that much.

[Ruler]

9 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Assuming this is even happening with anything approaching regularity, if you think there should be a rule, why not propose a wording for it?

I already did.

[Vinsk]

13 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Assuming this is even happening with anything approaching regularity, if you think there should be a rule, why not propose a wording for it?

This is the same problem we have when people say they should be allowed free relief from divots in the fairway.  If you have a proposal for a rule, go ahead and try to define the situation.  Let's start with that.  Someone was asked upthread to define the situation and couldn't even do that much.

 

21 hours ago, Ruler said:

In my mind the Code of Conduct could be written something like this:

'Any less than casual and repeating remarks aimed to distract another player would be considered as misconduct. Such behavior can lead to a penalty.'

A person may be irritating by nature to another person due to human features but any distracting done on purpose does not belong to the golf course, as far as I can see it and there are means in the Rules to stop such behavior.

Besides, the penalty need not be DQ and that is what the Code of Conduct is all about. A player may be penalized with 2 strokes or a loss of hole when a breach described in the Code occurs. Without the Code only DQ is possible and that would be a hard call.

 

[Ruler]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

That’s not even remotely close to what anyone is saying, no.

You are partly right, I was merely making a point.

The core issue taken up by the original poster is behavior that is experienced distracting. I have simply wanted to create some sort of solution to the problem. It is my opinion that no player should deliberately behave in a way that another player experiences distracting.

[Shindig]

4 minutes ago, Ruler said:

I already did.

Okay, I see that now;  thanks @Vinsk for the link.  It looks like the follow-up explained the problems with your proposal as worded.  

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Ruler said:

You are partly right, I was merely making a point.

No, you’re grasping at straws. There’s a wide gap between commenting on someone’s bad lie and making noise during their swing.

[Ruler]

This is the original question:

'My question is..is there any rule where a competitor can't talk smack on his competition's shot before they hit it like, "that out of bounds is deadly, or man I hope you don't hit it into the water," right before their competition hits?  If this isn't the case this is the one time I think a rule needs to be added for a competition!'

If that 'talk' is done in order to distract/disturb another competitor it is in my eyes equivalent with any other non-physical act with the same intention. So, the question lies whether there should be a Rule to make it punishable, or if CoC with 1.2a can do the trick.

I certainly wonder why some posters seem to be reluctant to have tools to solve the original poster's question.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Ruler said:

This is the original question:

'My question is..is there any rule where a competitor can't talk smack on his competition's shot before they hit it like, "that out of bounds is deadly, or man I hope you don't hit it into the water," right before their competition hits?  If this isn't the case this is the one time I think a rule needs to be added for a competition!'

If that 'talk' is done in order to distract/disturb another competitor it is in my eyes equivalent with any other non-physical act with the same intention.

Completely disagree. You have plenty of time to react and compose yourself if necessary to any comment made before your shot. You can’t do that with a noise made during your swing.

And how exactly would you prove intent anyway? They’re factual statements. Don’t hit the ball OB or in the water. Duh. 

1 hour ago, Ruler said:

So, the question lies whether there should be a Rule to make it punishable, or if CoC with 1.2a can do the trick.

I certainly wonder why some posters seem to be reluctant to have tools to solve the original poster's question.

The answer in my opinion, as well as most of the posters in this thread, is no, so why would you expect us to “have the tools” to solve a non-problem in the first place?

[Sandy Lie]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:08 PM, MattM said:

Hey Guys!

I find this egregious, but I don't know if there is a rule for this or not.  So I'm in a singles tournament (decent amount of money).  We have gross and net scores to win (I can only win on net right now). 

Anyway, I'm playing in a foursome with an older guy who acts like he's the nicest person ever, but wiley screws with people to either annoy or other wise mess with them (thus giving him the advantage).  First hole is a PAR 5.  After a little adventure I wind up just short of the left greenside bunker.  For some reason I get a brain fart and my wedge just digs into the ground and winds up in the trap and I take an 8 on number 1.  Usually my chipping would be ruined the rest of the round, but I keep it somewhat together and am still in it by hole 7 (an uphill PAR 3).  I blade my 6 iron and it winds up just shy of the right green side bunker.  Ok so, I'm trying to keep my mind clear of negativity to hit this shot I'm walking up to the ball to hit it and right before I do this old guys walks up to the ball looks at it and says, "I'm so glad I don't have your shot right now that's such a difficult shot etc."  

Naturally, I'm over the ball and can't shake the negative feeling and obviously I did the wedge into the ground and it winds up in the bunker.....I wind up taking a 7 and am LIVID!  

My question is..is there any rule where a competitor can't talk smack on his competition's shot before they hit it like, "that out of bounds is deadly, or man I hope you don't hit it into the water," right before their competition hits?  If this isn't the case this is the one time I think a rule needs to be added for a competition!

 

I’ve tried this with some success.  Be nice and just say to them the following, “ I would appreciate that you keep your comments to yourself while I’m analyzing my next shot and during my pre-shot routine.  I don’t care for negative comments as well.”  It may work, or it may not.  Or this works to, don’t recognize the statement, ignore him.  I try to outpace a player like that and keep my distance from them. Eventually they may get the message. Don’t talk to them.

[Ruler]

20 minutes ago, billchao said:

Completely disagree. You have plenty of time to react and compose yourself if necessary to any comment made before your shot. You can’t do that with a noise made during your swing.

So after every comment aimed to distract or disturb you you would just step back and compose yourself? How many times would you do it before it would make you mad?

Ok, I am done with this. I have never experienced any such behavior on the course described in the original post so I have no problem if there is a Rule or not.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Ruler said:

You are partly right, I was merely making a point.

The core issue taken up by the original poster is behavior that is experienced distracting. I have simply wanted to create some sort of solution to the problem. It is my opinion that no player should deliberately behave in a way that another player experiences distracting.

You didn’t make a point, though.

And I do not see a problem in need of a solution. Maybe in your reality one exists. Not here.

1 hour ago, Ruler said:

I certainly wonder why some posters seem to be reluctant to have tools to solve the original poster's question.

We’ve all told him how to handle it. The answer isn’t to create a poorly worded rule.

1 minute ago, Ruler said:

aimed to distract or disturb

Prove it.

[billchao]

10 minutes ago, Ruler said:

So after every comment aimed to distract or disturb you you would just step back and compose yourself?

No, I wouldn’t, because I wouldn’t have to. It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. I know perfectly well how bad my lie is, not to hit it OB, or not to hit it in the water without the need for anyone else to comment on it.

If anything, trying to game me in that manner would end up backfiring, as I’m the type of person who would focus just a little bit harder on making the difficult shot happen just to make you eat those words.

[Ruler]

11 hours ago, Ruler said:

 aimed to distract or disturb

 

11 hours ago, iacas said:

Prove it.

I am rather surprised by that comment. There are various points in the Rules of Golf where intent matters and in every case the intent has to be verified in order to reach the correct ruling. That is nothing new or extraordinary.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Ruler said:

I am rather surprised by that comment. There are various points in the Rules of Golf where intent matters and in every case the intent has to be verified in order to reach the correct ruling. That is nothing new or extraordinary.

Intent can be easier or tougher to determine.

So again, good luck and prove it. All for a comment someone makes about how tough a shot looks? C’mon. No.

You’ve got nothing here man.

Also, toughen up. It’s still a sport.

And get an avatar please.

[ChetlovesMer]

15 hours ago, billchao said:

No, I wouldn’t, because I wouldn’t have to. It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. I know perfectly well how bad my lie is, not to hit it OB, or not to hit it in the water without the need for anyone else to comment on it.

If anything, trying to game me in that manner would end up backfiring, as I’m the type of person who would focus just a little bit harder on making the difficult shot happen just to make you eat those words.

What if I said "You are a sharp dresser, when on the golf course"? Would that distract you?