What Constitutes Slow Play?

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, Zippo said:

The group I've been golfing with recently plays very slowly. 5 to 5 1/2 hours rounds are common. At first, I was a bit bothered by it but I see now that some of the golfers have physical handicaps that affect their speed of play. I'm willing to give them a pass and I've just decided that, if I play with the group, I should plan on it being a long round and just use the extra time to visit with my fellow players while we wait. There are definitely some of them who do not understand the concept of ready golf but it doesn't really matter as even if you golf more quickly you'll be waiting on the group ahead of you who's waiting on the group ahead of them, etc, etc. I'm enjoying the chance to play with some folk I don't know (at least, I'm enjoying meeting most of them) and as a retired geezer I've nothing else pressing to do anyway.

I've also noticed that I golf more poorly when playing with the group. Not sure if it's "performance anxiety" as I've been playing each time with people I don't know, or the pace of play breaking up my game, or just a bad day on the course. But, I don't get too perturbed about it and just enjoy being able to get out and play.

I get it.  But can you tell us of some of the comments you've heard shouted behind you by other groups.  😁  Also Zippo, would you be so kind to let me know which days and times you're playing at Shuksan Golf Course?  😁😁

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, Zippo said:

A week from Monday we’ll be at Homestead so you may want to avoid that course! 

I'm on it.  Thanks for the warning.  😄

[Zippo]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I'm on it.  Thanks for the warning.  😄

It’s also important to remember that these are high stakes tournaments. The winners get a sleeve of golf balls!  😁

[Double Mocha Man]

11 minutes ago, Zippo said:

It’s also important to remember that these are high stakes tournaments. The winners get a sleeve of golf balls!  😁

I'm thinking Mr. Morikawa is envious of your winnings.  So you must have been in the scramble tournament today at Shuksan...

Edited August 6, 2021 by Double Mocha Man

[RickK]

On 7/27/2021 at 8:54 PM, Darkfrog said:

One of the things Bill Yates discusses in his book about pace of play, Out of Time, is the impact of course setup.

Here is an example from a round I played July 18th.

The tee box is aiming directly into the trees on the right (yellow box is the green, red arrow is approximate alignment of tee markers). If a player aligns themselves where the markers are pointing, most likely they will be spending a bunch of time looking for lost balls. This is also a 190-210 yard par-3, so many amateur players are hitting hybrids/fairway woods, with larger dispersion pattern. I see this all the time at my home course, it is maddening.

That is interesting.  I too see this all the time but I can't name you even 1 player who really looks at where the tee markers are pointing.  You tee up between them and then look for your target line.  I play in 2 large traveling golf leagues, more than 200 players total, and again not 1 person I know of would have a problem with this tee setup.

[Zippo]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I'm thinking Mr. Morikawa is envious of your winnings.  So you must have been in the scramble tournament today at Shuksan...

Last Monday. The pressure was intense. The slow play is frustrating but there is not a thing to be done except grit your teeth and enjoy the day. At least the gallery was quiet.

[boogielicious]

I played twice last week at a local muni. Both days I played early, 7:15 and 7:09. I played with three guys in carts and me walking. The first day, the three guys were my age and we played in 3:30. We rarely waited to play as the groups ahead moved well.

The second day, we were behind a group of four older women, three in carts and one walking. My group had two 80+ year old guys and one in his late 70s. The women teed off at 7:00. We tee off at 7:09 and finished at 10:23. Yes thats 3:14 minutes, with three old guys behind four old women who we rarely had to wait for. The two older players also moved a bit slow getting their balls, but played fast when they got there.

Slow players are just that, slow. 

[The Flush]

I see this statement on a course's web page.

"We have reduced distance from greens to next tees which will improve pace of play by 30 minutes per round."

This can make a difference, particularly for walkers.  I wonder how far the green to next tee distances were before the changes to make for a 30 minute difference. I wonder what their percentage of walkers vs riders they have.

If my home course could do this, I would try to walk more. There are several (maybe most) holes with 100+yards from green to tee, and several of those are up steep hills. They would probably have to drop from a par 71 to 69 or less in order to make it work.

When we played a new course last week I noted how compact it was as far as green to tee and it made it flow nicely.

[Darkfrog]

On 8/6/2021 at 4:31 PM, RickK said:

That is interesting.  I too see this all the time but I can't name you even 1 player who really looks at where the tee markers are pointing.  You tee up between them and then look for your target line.  I play in 2 large traveling golf leagues, more than 200 players total, and again not 1 person I know of would have a problem with this tee setup.

I see players line up perpendicular to the line between tee markers somewhat often where I play. Often they will stand behind the ball and appear to pick a target line, but then address the ball aligned where the tee markers are pointing. I used to do this as well until I discovered during a putter fitting that my brain really wants me to align parallel or perpendicular to things like walls, borders, etc. I had to learn a method for aligning myself at my target to trick my brain out of doing what felt natural.

This issue probably varies in severity depending on the skill/experience of the players who are on the course, along with the layout/geography of the course. I believe on my course, it does contribute significantly to slow play (not an issue for me because my group is usually the first out on Sunday morning).

I also suspect that tee markers at my course are sometimes haphazardly set up by a rushed/understaffed maintenance crew. As the first group out, we usually find at least one pin not replaced after green mowing, dead carts from the previous day in the middle of the fairway, tee markers sometimes just laying on the teeing area, etc.

[boogielicious]

19 hours ago, The Flush said:

I see this statement on a course's web page.

"We have reduced distance from greens to next tees which will improve pace of play by 30 minutes per round."

This can make a difference, particularly for walkers.  I wonder how far the green to next tee distances were before the changes to make for a 30 minute difference. I wonder what their percentage of walkers vs riders they have.

If my home course could do this, I would try to walk more. There are several (maybe most) holes with 100+yards from green to tee, and several of those are up steep hills. They would probably have to drop from a par 71 to 69 or less in order to make it work.

When we played a new course last week I noted how compact it was as far as green to tee and it made it flow nicely.

Older courses are like this. It evolved from early Scottish courses where you teed up just off the green you played for the next hole. I really like it. It harder to do this on hillier course or ones in housing developments though.

[DaveP043]

4 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Older courses are like this. It evolved from early Scottish courses where you teed up just off the green you played for the next hole. I really like it. It harder to do this on hillier course or ones in housing developments though.

Agree, some of my favorite courses are older and designed this way.  Sadly, my home club isn't one of them, we have a bunch of long walks.  I'm surprised at the claim that @The Flush has reported a course at making:

On 8/10/2021 at 12:11 PM, The Flush said:

I see this statement on a course's web page.

"We have reduced distance from greens to next tees which will improve pace of play by 30 minutes per round."

30 minutes of playing duration related only to the walks between holes should mean something over a mile of reduced walking.  That's around 100 yards a hole (1760 yards in a mile).  For modern courses, its hard to imagine how tees can be moved that much closer to the preceding green.  Or perhaps I don't entirely understand the claim being made.

[Double Mocha Man]

6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Older courses are like this. It evolved from early Scottish courses where you teed up just off the green you played for the next hole. I really like it. It harder to do this on hillier course or ones in housing developments though.

Pebble Beach, being an older course, is like that.  I wouldn't want to be teeing off on the back tees on #8 while someone was hitting a wicked hook on the par 3 #7 behind me.

[DaveP043]

18 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Pebble Beach, being an older course, is like that.  I wouldn't want to be teeing off on the back tees on #8 while someone was hitting a wicked hook on the par 3 #7 behind me.

MidPines, in the Pinehurst area, is another with tees close to the preceding green.  I can think of a couple where the nearest points are less than 5 yards apart.  Its a joy to walk there.

[Double Mocha Man]

Just now, DaveP043 said:

MidPines, in the Pinehurst area, is another with tees close to the preceding green.  I can think of a couple where the nearest points are less than 5 yards apart.  Its a joy to walk there.

Helmet golf.

[The Flush]

6 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Agree, some of my favorite courses are older and designed this way.  Sadly, my home club isn't one of them, we have a bunch of long walks.  I'm surprised at the claim that @The Flush has reported a course at making:

30 minutes of playing duration related only to the walks between holes should mean something over a mile of reduced walking.  That's around 100 yards a hole (1760 yards in a mile).  For modern courses, its hard to imagine how tees can be moved that much closer to the preceding green.  Or perhaps I don't entirely understand the claim being made.

Here is the course.  I have never played it, but my son played it for the first time yesterday. I guess when they say 5 new holes that could be completely new in a new location instead of on top of old holes.  IDK. Maybe someone from Columbus can chime in.

Safari Golf - Course Overview

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by The Flush

[DrvFrShow]

My last round was 5-1/2 hrs. I can't believe how slow the rounds are on Mondays. Two years ago it took 4 hrs. in the afternoons. Two golf courses closed three years ago. The Covid golf surge hit last year and people who hadn't played in years came out. New golfers came out. And if we had those two courses it would have been a lot better. 

[Double Mocha Man]

3 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

My last round was 5-1/2 hrs. I can't believe how slow the rounds are on Mondays. Two years ago it took 4 hrs. in the afternoons. Two golf courses closed three years ago. The Covid golf surge hit last year and people who hadn't played in years came out. New golfers came out. And if we had those two courses it would have been a lot better. 

The good thing about the Covid golf surge as you call it is that courses are more viable now and fewer will be closing.  Look on the bright side...

[Sandy Lie]

Played Pinehurst #4 this morning. One rider (not me) two walkers.  1st group out at 7:00 at 74 degrees, finished in 3hrs flat at 96 degrees with a feels like of 105!  Soaking wet, went through 3 gloves, all 3 were soaked by the 12th hole. Shot 40/37.  2 birdies, 4 bogies, one a 3 putt. Tomorrow we are 2nd group out on #2. Expect same weather conditions, can’t wait! 🥵🥵🥵

Edited August 12, 2021 by Sandy Lie