National Anthems Before Sporting Events

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Billy Z said:

I think many people are getting tired of the cancel culture and all the things that go along with it, and don't want to see the national anthem added to the list of things that are taboo. If you cannot be patriotic to the country you live in then what are you doing here in the first place.

You're conflating two things that I don't think are anywhere near as tied together as you seem to think.

1 hour ago, Billy Z said:

Although I wonder when asked, what country is the greatest in the world, what people would answer?

1 hour ago, Billy Z said:

I guess if it were canceled, we wouldn't have to worry about disrespecting it when it is being played like kneeling and such. 

Kneeling isn't disrespecting the national anthem (or the country).

I'd argue that what Texas has done is less patriotic, more "anti-American," and less "good" than what the situation was before.

[GolfLug]

How is folks wanting the national anthem to be more selective in it's rendering and have a higher valuation by limited use the opposite of patriotism? How is that even remotely cancel culture? 

And please don't tell me that some the renderings at events aren't purely for entertainment or even self promotion.

Edited June 2, 2021 by GolfLug

[Birdieputt]

26 minutes ago, iacas said:

You're conflating two things that I don't think are anywhere near as tied together as you seem to think.

Kneeling isn't disrespecting the national anthem (or the country).

I'd argue that what Texas has done is less patriotic, more "anti-American," and less "good" than what the situation was before.

Really?  Just what has Texas done that is egregious compared with some of the crap California is pulling?

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Birdieputt said:

Really?  Just what has Texas done that is egregious compared with some of the crap California is pulling?

Let's stick to the topic, eh?

[Shorty]

2 hours ago, Billy Z said:

Although I wonder when asked, what country is the greatest in the world, what people would answer? 

There are many lists which attempt to measure this on a range of metrics, for example:

These lists are obviously open to debate but you might be surprised which country pretty much never makes the top 10 or even top 20.

Times have changed. But that's not saying that you would be wanting to move to the 19 countries that "rank" higher than your own.

And I think the issue is that the U.S.A. is like many countries in one. International perceptions have certainly changed and requiring things like the national anthem at sporting events because it's away of currying favour with the worst of the worst is a grave mistake.

It's not about who DOES play the anthem, it's about who does NOT. Hardly a celebration of the expression of "freedom".

[phillyk]

1 minute ago, Shorty said:

There are many lists which attempt to measure this on a range of metrics, for example:

These lists are obviously open to debate but you might be surprised which country pretty much never makes the top 10 or even top 20.

The list is missing the most important metric, # of golf courses! 

[Shorty]

6 minutes ago, phillyk said:

The list is missing the most important metric, # of golf courses! 

That would rank pretty high with me too!!! I'm calling some in the top 10 no go zones. 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Shorty

[saevel25]

10 minutes ago, Shorty said:

There are many lists which attempt to measure this on a range of metrics, for example:

All we care about is GPD (a BS stat), and Military Spending. 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I'd argue that what Texas has done is less patriotic, more "anti-American," and less "good" than what the situation was before.

I agree. 

[GolfLug]

Weakness at the core manifests in many ways. 

If Texas is trying to hang on to a higher vision they are going at it in a wrong way. It seems their leadership has lost patience. Maybe there is desperation at the core. Even panic. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by GolfLug

[Billy Z]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

You're conflating two things that I don't think are anywhere near as tied together as you seem to think.

 

Funny, people seem to be moving into the United States and I don't see a whole lot of people leaving. To me that says everything better than Jeff Daniels. 

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, Billy Z said:

Funny, people seem to be moving into the United States and I don't see a whole lot of people leaving. To me that says everything better than Jeff Daniels. 

The point though is we can be better. We have been in the past in areas and we’ve strayed from that. Too much greed, in fighting, political bullsh*t, me first culture and racism have brought us down. It shouldn’t be a zero sum game where I can only succeed if you fail. It’s should be like golf where you and I can both have our best rounds together. That’s why forcing the anthem on people will be a failure and cause more unrest. I want everyone in this country to stand proud when the anthem is played because they all feel the country is moving in the right direction.

[ChetlovesMer]

I'm going to defend @Billy Z a little. 

I get what he means about the Cancel Culture. At least I think I do. I don't think he's saying (And@Billy Z you can correct me if I'm wrong) that this is a direct result of the Cancel Culture. But because of the Cancel Culture, boycott this, boycott that, fire this person, get rid of that person, etc. There are people who feel like The US overly caters to the smallest of minorities. And in this case I mean minority of opinions, not race or religion or gender identification. I remember reading that 80% of the content on twitter is put out by 2.5% of the US population. I think there are people (and maybe this is what @Billy Z is saying) that are just tired of people bashing on stuff. Perhaps they aren't one of the 2.5% putting out all that content on twitter, so they don't feel like they have a voice. So, when people started protesting the National Anthem, these folks didn't see it as a protest, they saw it as another attack. And this time it was an attack on something they love. Either their country, their flag, the anthem itself, or the military which protects their rights. etc... Even if it's not an attack on those things, there are those who saw it as such.

9 hours ago, GolfLug said:

How is that even remotely cancel culture? 

I don't think it is. I'm pretty sure @Billy Z doesn't think so either. (Again, I may be wrong.) I think what @Billy Z is trying to say is that some of the frustration with the controversy over the Anthem comes from folks who are fed up and frustrated by the cancel culture. Which I think is a fair point. 

9 hours ago, iacas said:

You're conflating two things that I don't think are anywhere near as tied together as you seem to think.

Again, I don't think @Billy Zis claiming direct cause and effect. I think he's saying its part of it. Part of it is how fast all the news cycles are now. Something horrible happens and its often posted online before anyone even calls 911, that's part of it. It's a feeling that even if you are really trying to do and say the right things, you can be fired for using a word or a piece of speech that just 10 years ago was totally acceptable. There's tons of stuff that enter into it. It's all off topic but it does make some people want for a time when they could go to a baseball game, sit down with there popcorn and beer, hear the National Anthem and forget about all that stuff for a little bit. 

Again, I'm not saying I'm for this law, because I'm not. But I can at least understand how or why people are trying to legislate their way back to their fond memories. I truly don't believe this is the way to do it. But I understand at least for some why they are trying. 

9 hours ago, iacas said:

I'd argue that what Texas has done is less patriotic, more "anti-American," and less "good" than what the situation was before.

I totally agree with you. 

Both sides of the aisle have created laws in which I feel were knee-jerk reactions to things. Often times creating them without thinking of the unintended consequences.

I think this law is a terrible idea and I really hope it doesn't pass.

I also hope they keep playing The National Anthem at baseball games. 

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

But because of the Cancel Culture, boycott this, boycott that, fire this person, get rid of that person, etc. 

All protected by the 1st amendment. 

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

There are people who feel like The US overly caters to the smallest of minorities.

We really don't. 

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I think there are people (and maybe this is what @Billy Z is saying) that are just tired of people bashing on stuff. Perhaps they aren't one of the 2.5% putting out all that content on twitter, so they don't feel like they have a voice. So, when people started protesting the National Anthem, these folks didn't see it as a protest, they saw it as another attack.

That is why I make the comment, get a bit more enlightened. Know the distinction of which protest are actual protest versus cancel culture. In no way is kneeling during the national anthem cancel culture. It's not even close. 

 

 

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

In no way is kneeling during the national anthem cancel culture. It's not even close. 

Yep.

[mcanadiens]

So looking a little closer at the Texas bill that inspired this thread, "The Star Spangled Banner Protection Act", it wouldn't make it illegal to not play the anthem. It would take away any government subsidies or contracts from a professional sports team that does not play it.

Either way, I think it is patently unconstitutional. 

Still kind of makes me wonder what the extent of the subsidies or contracts the state of Texas has with professional sports organizations. 

[ChetlovesMer]

12 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

All protected by the 1st amendment. 

AGAIN, I agree. But I think some people feel as though the traditional values they hold dear are under attack.

 

14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

We really don't. 

We kinda do

 

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

In no way is kneeling during the national anthem cancel culture. It's not even close. 

AGAIN, I totally agree. But surely you must be able to understand that some folks could be frustrated by it. They feel like everything they like, love or understand is under attack. ONCE AGAIN, I don't feel like the Cancel Culture and protesting the National Anthem are the same thing. But for some people it feels like ANOTHER attack on something they love. If you were beaten down all day at work. "You did this wrong!... You did that wrong! ... This is no longer allowed! ... That is no longer allowed!" You just feel like everything you do or know is under attack. Then you drive home and somebody cuts you off. NOW YOUR PISSED! Does that person cutting you off have anything to do with the bad day at work? Of course not. It just feels like somebody is piling on, trying to ruin your day. 

While I don't agree with this law and have said so at least 4 times now. I CAN understand how people want to protect the traditional values that they've grown up loving. I get it. I DON'T think this is the way to achieve that goal. But I understand their frustration. 

[saevel25]

 

2 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

But surely you must be able to understand that some folks could be frustrated by it. They feel like everything they like, love or understand is under attack.

They are misconstruing cancel culture with protesting. It's their own fault, and being frustrated is not an excuse for this law. 

3 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

"You did this wrong!... You did that wrong! ... This is no longer allowed! ... That is no longer allowed!" You just feel like everything you do or know is under attack.

Has nothing to do with kneeling during the national anthem. 

4 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I CAN understand how people want to protect the traditional values that they've grown up loving. I get it. I DON'T think this is the way to achieve that goal. But I understand their frustration. 

This has nothing to do with protecting traditional values. This has everything to do with politics, wanting to punish protestors, and want to be controlling. They just frame it as protecting a tradition. 

No, I don't agree with your assessment of why this is happening in Texas. 

[ChetlovesMer]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

No, I don't agree with your assessment of why this is happening in Texas. 

Okay