Did Golf Clubs Used to Have Flatter Lie Angles?

[onthehunt526]

To all you club builders out there that probably had to put whipping on wood clubs…. Did the clubs made say pre Ping Eye 2 era have flatter lie angles? (The PINGs were pretty upright for their time) … I will include a chart from my old 1988 book. Sports Illustrated: Golf Play Like A Pro. 

The Titleist 841 when I looked them were about 1° more upright than the lie angles listed on here.

[boogielicious]

Here are the specs from my irons. My 6 iron is equivalent to their 5 in loft. My lie is steeper and length different. It may have to do with the shafts. If their shafts were heavier/thicker, they may have flexed less at impact and needed a flatter lie.

[onthehunt526]

I know the lengths are an inch shorter than now, but those are still some pretty flat lie angles.

[Adam C]

Those are pretty standard for the time.

[onthehunt526]

38 minutes ago, Adam C said:

Those are pretty standard for the time.

I figured that much. 
 

The Ping Eye 2 irons were around when the book was published and looking up the specs for them, I found that they (Black dot Eye 2’s) were substantially more upright than the numbers above.

[Adam C]

It was those Pings that probably forced the change to more upright lies.

[onthehunt526]

1 hour ago, Adam C said:

It was those Pings that probably forced the change to more upright lies.

This chart really doesn’t say, but was standard swingweight a little different in the old days?

You would think shorter clubs would play a little flatter anyway… am I reading too much into this?

[Adam C]

11 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

This chart really doesn’t say, but was standard swingweight a little different in the old days?

You would think shorter clubs would play a little flatter anyway… am I reading too much into this?

I think the old lie angles were all based on basic geometry which would give you lower needed lies. I think they now understand how the club act during the swing and the lies have moved accordingly. 

I don't recall the SW on the old stuff. The clubs were heavy overall but they were shorter so the swing weights were probably in the high C range. Ping for years, was always lighter in SW than the other major brands.

[iacas]

Shaft droop effectively flattens the lie angle of the club into delivery, too.

Shafts have always drooped, I'm not saying that's new.

[NHpro]

On 6/20/2021 at 1:18 AM, onthehunt526 said:

To all you club builders out there that probably had to put whipping on wood clubs…. Did the clubs made say pre Ping Eye 2 era have flatter lie angles? (The PINGs were pretty upright for their time) … I will include a chart from my old 1988 book. Sports Illustrated: Golf Play Like A Pro. 

The Titleist 841 when I looked them were about 1° more upright than the lie angles listed on here.

Below are my new Ping Eye 2 iron specs:

3i   18 deg.

4i   22deg.

5i   26deg

6i   30deg

7i   34deg

8i   38deg

9i   42deg

PW  46deg

SW  54deg

Below are my new Ping Eye 2 specs:

All steel shafts have been replaced and made 3/4" longer over stock.

3i   18 deg.

4i   22deg.

5i   26deg

6i   30deg

7i   34deg

8i   38deg

9i   42deg

PW  46deg

SW  54deg

Edited July 9, 2021 by NHpro
additional info

[colin007]

1 hour ago, NHpro said:

Below are my new Ping Eye 2 iron specs:

3i   18 deg.

4i   22deg.

5i   26deg

6i   30deg

7i   34deg

8i   38deg

9i   42deg

PW  46deg

SW  54deg

Below are my new Ping Eye 2 specs:

All steel shafts have been replaced and made 3/4" longer over stock.

3i   18 deg.

4i   22deg.

5i   26deg

6i   30deg

7i   34deg

8i   38deg

9i   42deg

PW  46deg

SW  54deg

Lie angle, not loft.

[NHpro]

26 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Lie angle, not loft.

got it, thanks.

[Big Lex]

I think some manufacturers at some times made their super game improvement clubs with more upright lies, as (all other things being equal) this will tend to make shots start more left and mitigate the effects of slicing to some degree. Whether it's still done or not in irons, I don't know. I think at one time the way "draw bias" was induced in adjustable hosel metal woods was to basically make them more upright.  Anyway those are reasons I think you may find that current specs in _some_ modern clubs are more upright than traditional specs. 

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Big Lex