Club Champion Recommendation or Go My Own Way?

[lmorales425]

Hello everyone

I went for a driver fitting at golf champion yesterday. 

My swing speed is 87-90 and have an overall total yardage around 205-215 (my arccos stat).  I am currently working with my local pro on improving my swing with the driver.  One area where I am losing distance is Angle of Attack (AoA).  On trackman, I really struggle to get a positive AoA, I am mostly in the -1 to -4 range.  When I am able to get it positive (+3 to +5), I gain about 20-25 yards.

My results with club champion were:

Tried driver heads from Taylormade SIM2 max, Callaway Epic Max, Ping Max 425 G, Mizuno, and different shafts.  Settled on the Ping G425 9-degree and Mitsubishi Tensei 1K Pro White 50 Stiff.   The improvement over my existing Wishon 919 and Ozik Red Tie 70 Stiff shaft were:   less spin 3270 to 3080,   tighter dispersion, and total distance improvement from 211 to 230.

I don't want to spend $1000 for a new driver (club champion cost for driver and shaft).  I can buy a Ping G410 Plus with Alta CB 55 for $345.  Or Ping G425 with Alta for $500.  If I go with the G410 Plus or G425 with Alta shaft, do you think I will keep the potential gain I saw at club champion?   Does the Ping driver model make a difference?   Or will Ping G425 with Alta - give me most of what the Tensei shaft gives me?  I am interested to know what everyone thinks.

thank you for your feedback,

Luis

[Adam C]

Leave it to Club Champion to come up with some completely random shaft that won't make any difference except cost you an extra $400. Get the Ping driver with the stock 50g shaft option. Be aware the Alta shaft is counterbalanced so that may be different. Would be interested to know what swing weight the Ping w/ 1K was at so you can match that up.

 

[lmorales425]

Thanks Adam - good question.   I don't understand what counterbalanced, but I am going to do some research on it.

I am sending the email to the guy who fitted me.

Luis

[pganapathy]

Am just curious whether the gains you saw at Club Champion were because of the driver/shaft or because you were hitting up on the ball.  I assume, that if you hit your existing driver properly, you will get roughly the same results as you did at Club Champion.  First work on your swing and if you are still struggling (distance and dispersion) then get fitted for a more suitable driver

[Shindig]

I don't know about Club Champion specifically, but I went for a "thorough fitting" (or whatever it was called) thirteen years ago at an outfit called "Max Out Golf."  Every time I hear about Club Champion, it reminds me of MOG, except the latter was founded by a former U.S. Amateur champion.  I was about OP's handicap at the time (I was about a 22 then, I think?) and I spent an absurd (even for today, but especially for what little money I was making then) amount of money on the fitting, bought some of the suggested supplies from them, and didn't see improvement.  Then I would periodically play rounds at nearby courses (almost always as a single who got paired up, since that's largely how I played in those days) and would see others with the same shafts.  Sure enough, we'd all gone to MOG.  Turns out they fit just about everyone into the same shafts.  I think there was even a plus handicap who was told these particular iron shafts at regular flex were optimal for him.

So I have a bad association in my mind of CC just by association with a group they might not have anything to do with.  I've been unpacking boxes from my garage recently and I found some of the fitting suggestions from them.  In addition to the huge cost of the fitting, going with everything they suggested would have set me back over $2000 .

I'm sure there are legitimate ways to find the optimal set of equipment for you.  As for me thirteen years ago, I wish I had spent the money on lessons and practice instead.  

Getting fit for clubs is important, and ill-fitting clubs can be bad, but I don't think a high index needs to optimize unless the equipment is standing in the way.  And most club manufacturers will do the fitting for free these days anyway.  

[lmorales425]

At club champion, I had an AoA of 1.7 with Ping and 1.3 with my club (I took swings with my club during so I could compare).

I continue to work on AoA with my pro, but my progress is inconsistent.

I see my index is wrong - I am a 15  I am correcting it in my profile.

Luis

[lmorales425]

one more piece of info.  The Ping G425 Max and Tensei 1K Pro White 50 Stiff combo had a swing weight of D6.

In looking it up, Ping G425 Max and PING Alta CB 55 Slate Graphite has a swing weight of D3.

From what I am reading, there is a difference.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, lmorales425 said:

Thanks Adam - good question.   I don't understand what counterbalanced, but I am going to do some research on it.

I am sending the email to the guy who fitted me.

Luis

I’d like your fitter to have a discussion with @Adam C…..

[Adam C]

10 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I’d like your fitter to have a discussion with @Adam C…..

The fitter would not like that!

[Adam C]

24 minutes ago, lmorales425 said:

one more piece of info.  The Ping G425 Max and Tensei 1K Pro White 50 Stiff combo had a swing weight of D6.

In looking it up, Ping G425 Max and PING Alta CB 55 Slate Graphite has a swing weight of D3.

From what I am reading, there is a difference.

The Alta shaft is counterbalanced meaning there is extra weight positioned towards the grip end. Ping makes all their heads heavier and uses this CB shaft idea to balance out the swing weight. When you switch into a "standard" shaft, the swing weight goes up b/c the extra weight is no longer in the grip area, hence you see the D6 SW.

Of course you can buy lighter weights for the Ping if you want the weight brought back down as some people will consider D6 a bit too heavy. It's all personal preference of course so D6 might be what you need to help your AoA.

All that being said, you don't need the $400 shaft to accomplish this, any shaft other than the Alta CB will give you higher SW values.

Might want to get some lead tape and put it on the bottom of your current driver, and see if the heavier SW changes your AoA/ball flight.

[mohearn]

1 hour ago, lmorales425 said:

I continue to work on AoA with my pro, but my progress is inconsistent.

Since you're working with someone, already, might want to run it be them, what you've shared here.

[lmorales425]

good ideas and good feedback - thank you everyone !

No decision for me yet, I will research this (to death) and waffle for a while before I pull the trigger.

I will definitely talk to my club pro

 

Luis

[Shindig]

14 minutes ago, lmorales425 said:

good ideas and good feedback - thank you everyone !

We're always happy to help out!  Stick around and talk golf with us whenever you'd like   

[Big C]

I have never been to Club Champion, but I know several guys who have gotten fitted there. Almost without exception, their recommendations are absurdly expensive. One of my good friends got fitted for a whole set (driver through wedges - no putter) and the quoted price for the set they were pushing him towards was $4,000. 

My opinion is a that a good fitter will offer their player a couple of comparable options at different price points. For instance, if you can get 98% of the performance for 60% of the cost, that is tradeoff that makes sense for almost all of the amateur golfing population. But it seems like Club Champion will just push you towards one "optimal" suggestion. And coincidentally (or not), that suggestion is usually quite pricey.

I am not well versed enough to answer your specific questions about shafts and the interchangeability of your options. But it sounds like you have a sneaking suspicion that Club Champion might be trying to upsell you significantly for very little gain. And based on all of the stories, I have heard, I think you are probably right.

[StuM]

 

7 hours ago, lmorales425 said:

Hello everyone

I went for a driver fitting at golf champion yesterday. 

My swing speed is 87-90 and have an overall total yardage around 205-215 (my arccos stat).  I am currently working with my local pro on improving my swing with the driver.  One area where I am losing distance is Angle of Attack (AoA).  On trackman, I really struggle to get a positive AoA, I am mostly in the -1 to -4 range.  When I am able to get it positive (+3 to +5), I gain about 20-25 yards.

My results with club champion were:

Tried driver heads from Taylormade SIM2 max, Callaway Epic Max, Ping Max 425 G, Mizuno, and different shafts.  Settled on the Ping G425 9-degree and Mitsubishi Tensei 1K Pro White 50 Stiff.   The improvement over my existing Wishon 919 and Ozik Red Tie 70 Stiff shaft were:   less spin 3270 to 3080,   tighter dispersion, and total distance improvement from 211 to 230.

I don't want to spend $1000 for a new driver (club champion cost for driver and shaft).  I can buy a Ping G410 Plus with Alta CB 55 for $345.  Or Ping G425 with Alta for $500.  If I go with the G410 Plus or G425 with Alta shaft, do you think I will keep the potential gain I saw at club champion?   Does the Ping driver model make a difference?   Or will Ping G425 with Alta - give me most of what the Tensei shaft gives me?  I am interested to know what everyone thinks.

thank you for your feedback,

Luis

Not sure if it is a option for you, but you could get a 2nd fitting from someone other than Club Champion and see what they recommend.  Naturally, that would entail a 2nd fee for the fitting so could be counter-productive to saving money.  Where are you located? Maybe another TST knows a good fitter in your area.

Edited August 6, 2021 by StuM

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Big C said:

I have never been to Club Champion, but I know several guys who have gotten fitted there. Almost without exception, their recommendations are absurdly expensive. One of my good friends got fitted for a whole set (driver through wedges - no putter) and the quoted price for the set they were pushing him towards was $4,000. 

That's not that high.

Let's say you want a set of Titleist irons and Vokey wedges, all somewhat stock:

• Driver: $549
• 3W: $299
• Two Hybrids: $558
• 4-PW: $1299
• Three Wedges: $477

Total: $3,182. (Yeah, that's 14 clubs without a putter.)

[Vinsk]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's not that high.

Let's say you want a set of Titleist irons and Vokey wedges, all somewhat stock:

• Driver: $549
• 3W: $299
• Two Hybrids: $558
• 4-PW: $1299
• Three Wedges: $477

Total: $3,182. (Yeah, that's 14 clubs without a putter.)

If they were Titleist irons then not so bad. But if they were Ping G series….or many others, then it’s pretty high. It seems to be the shaft options that CC is milking rather impressively.

[Big C]

26 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's not that high.

Let's say you want a set of Titleist irons and Vokey wedges, all somewhat stock:

• Driver: $549
• 3W: $299
• Two Hybrids: $558
• 4-PW: $1299
• Three Wedges: $477

Total: $3,182. (Yeah, that's 14 clubs without a putter.)

$2,900 if you subtract the extra club you added (my set is identical to the above, but I only carry 1 hybrid). And if you are willing to play with  clubs that are a year model old, you can easily purchase a set for closer to $2,000-2,500, with performance characteristics that are going to be pretty darn close to whatever Club Champion recommends. 

So I'd stand by the "absurdly high" comment. There may be some out there that are willing to pay whatever it takes for the perfect fit. But for the vast majority of golfers for whom that $1,000-1,500 actually means something to, I'd say that Club Champion is no friend.