Cutting Open Refurbished and Refinished ProV1s

[checkerfred]

So I cut a Prov1, a refurbished Prov1, and a refinished Prov1.  It seems that the refurbished one isn’t actually a Prov1 as it doesn’t have the extra core layer.  Thoughts?

I found these balls and thought it would be neat to see. I may cut open all refinished/refurbished Prov1s that I find and track them. 

[mohearn]

Ok, so what are you trying to accomplish? From your picture, the middle ball is a Pro V1x  ('x') which is 4 layers.  The ball on the left has a red number, so it's probably also a Prov1x, again, 4 layers.  And the ball on the right has a black number, so probably a Pro V1 (no 'x') which is a 3 layer ball.  So?

[checkerfred]

18 minutes ago, mohearn said:

Ok, so what are you trying to accomplish? From your picture, the middle ball is a Pro V1x  ('x') which is 4 layers.  The ball on the left has a red number, so it's probably also a Prov1x, again, 4 layers.  And the ball on the right has a black number, so probably a Pro V1 (no 'x') which is a 3 layer ball.  So?

Easy there bud. I was just interested in finding out if the refurbished or refinished balls are actually Prov1s.  No need to be defensive

[StuM]

12 minutes ago, checkerfred said:

Easy there bud. I was just interested in finding out if the refurbished or refinished balls are actually Prov1s.  No need to be defensive

I do not think he was being defensive, you may have read a little "Tone" into his email that I did not sense.  He is providing specifications of different versions of Pro-V balls which appears to explain the different visuals you are seeing when you cut them in half.

[checkerfred]

2 minutes ago, StuM said:

I do not think he was being defensive, you may have read a little "Tone" into his email that I did not sense.  He is providing specifications of different versions of Pro-V balls which appears to explain the different visuals you are seeing when you cut them in half.

Yeah it seemed defensive or condescending with the “so what are you trying to accomplish?” And “so?” Comments. I find quite a bit of these and typically don’t play them being they’re refurbished or refinished.  So that’s why I posted. Interested in finding out if any of these balls are ever not Prov1s 

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, checkerfred said:

Yeah it seemed defensive or condescending with the “so what are you trying to accomplish?” And “so?” Comments. I find quite a bit of these and typically don’t play them being they’re refurbished or refinished.  So that’s why I posted. Interested in finding out if any of these balls are ever not Prov1s 

I think you're still missing his original point.

• The current Pro V1x is a four-piece ball.
• The Pro V1 is a three-piece ball.

The "Pro V1" and "Pro V1x" are different models of golf ball. They have different compositions and different performance characteristics. They're both premium balls, but they're fundamentally different golf balls.

Titleist Pro V1 | Buy Titleist Pro V1 Golf Balls | Titleist

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For golfers looking to shoot their best scores, the Titleist Pro V1 golf ball provides total performance from tee to green. Shop directly from Titleist today.

Titleist Pro V1x | Buy Titleist Pro V1x Golf Balls | Titleist

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For golfers looking to shoot their best scores, look no further than the Titleist Pro V1x golf ball. Shop directly from Titleist and make the Pro V1x your own.

Look, @checkerfred, just read the words as they're written. The only "tone" in reading a written word is the tone you add to it. I can say "f*** off" to a buddy when he's told me he just made another hole in one and it can be completely nice and friendly and astonished and happy for him, and I can say "f*** off" to someone who just stole something from me and ran away and it can be none of those things. Just reading those words you have no idea the "tone" of the words because you can't hear them in the author's voice as he would have said them at the time.

So, benefit of the doubt, man.

[checkerfred]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think you're still missing his original point.

• The current Pro V1x is a four-piece ball.
• The Pro V1 is a three-piece ball.

The "Pro V1" and "Pro V1x" are different models of golf ball. They have different compositions and different performance characteristics. They're both premium balls, but they're fundamentally different golf balls.

Titleist Pro V1 | Buy Titleist Pro V1 Golf Balls | Titleist

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For golfers looking to shoot their best scores, the Titleist Pro V1 golf ball provides...

Titleist Pro V1x | Buy Titleist Pro V1x Golf Balls | Titleist

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For golfers looking to shoot their best scores, look no further than the Titleist Pro...

Look, @checkerfred, just read the words as they're written. The only "tone" in reading a written word is the tone you add to it. I can say "f*** off" to a buddy when he's told me he just made another hole in one and it can be completely nice and friendly and astonished and happy for him, and I can say "f*** off" to someone who just stole something from me and ran away and it can be none of those things. Just reading those words you have no idea the "tone" of the words because you can't hear them in the author's voice as he would have said them at the time.

So, benefit of the doubt, man.

Definitely didn’t miss the original point. Obviously had I known the prov came in a 3 piece I wouldn’t have posted.  Just trying to be a little more active on the forum but no worries. 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, checkerfred said:

Just trying to be a little more active on the forum but no worries. 

Then stop reading "tone" into plain text.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, checkerfred said:

Interested in finding out if any of these balls are ever not Prov1s

Ok, so back on topic, how would you know simply from cutting them open? I’m pretty sure Titleist tweaks their ball formula periodically, so even if two Pro V1s don’t match, you could just be looking at balls from different years or something.

[checkerfred]

11 minutes ago, billchao said:

Ok, so back on topic, how would you know simply from cutting them open? I’m pretty sure Titleist tweaks their ball formula periodically, so even if two Pro V1s don’t match, you could just be looking at balls from different years or something.

Good point, on the other side of that though, how would you know it’s not some other 3 piece ball? I’ve found some of these that are definitely harder feeling that others especially compared to the original ones

[billchao]

5 minutes ago, checkerfred said:

Good point, on the other side of that though, how would you know it’s not some other 3 piece ball? I’ve found some of these that are definitely harder feeling that others especially compared to the original ones

You found them though, right? They’ve been exposed to the elements for who knows how long?

I’m sure a business that refurbishes random balls and sells them as Pro V1s would get into trouble if they were caught, but this isn’t exactly a definitive way to prove anything. If there aren’t any markings indicating so, you don’t even know which company did the job, do you?

[DaveP043]

If we believe the marketing, these golf balls are tweaked every two years or so.  The thickness of the various layers may change a little, and the coloring of the materials may also change.  For the "original" ProV1, you can probably look at the markings and determine which version you have.  But the refurbished/refinished balls won't have their original markings, they'll have new paint, so you'll have no idea what to try to compare them to.   I wonder if the color of the compounds might change for different ball plants, I just don't know. And as others have said, there's the difficulty of comparing a 3-piece ball against a 4-piece ball, if the refurbishing is done right the color of the number should differentiate those for you.  Its an interesting exercise to cut the balls open, but I'm not sure you'd ever be able to prove anything.

[Zippo]

Thanks for the posting, @checkerfred. I learned something from the responses that I wouldn't have known otherwise.

[checkerfred]

6 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

If we believe the marketing, these golf balls are tweaked every two years or so.  The thickness of the various layers may change a little, and the coloring of the materials may also change.  For the "original" ProV1, you can probably look at the markings and determine which version you have.  But the refurbished/refinished balls won't have their original markings, they'll have new paint, so you'll have no idea what to try to compare them to.   I wonder if the color of the compounds might change for different ball plants, I just don't know. And as others have said, there's the difficulty of comparing a 3-piece ball against a 4-piece ball, if the refurbishing is done right the color of the number should differentiate those for you.  Its an interesting exercise to cut the balls open, but I'm not sure you'd ever be able to prove anything.

Interestingly enough, they were all marked Prov1 x. So I guess it must have been a sorting error.  I’ve never cut them open before. The original Prov1 has lumps on the cover so I wasn’t going to play it. You can see them on the outside of where I cut it. The other two I had on my shag bag 

6 hours ago, billchao said:

You found them though, right? They’ve been exposed to the elements for who knows how long?

I’m sure a business that refurbishes random balls and sells them as Pro V1s would get into trouble if they were caught, but this isn’t exactly a definitive way to prove anything. If there aren’t any markings indicating so, you don’t even know which company did the job, do you?

I did but they weren’t out that long when I had found them. I just watched a video that Rick Shiels had done comparing them to an original. He noticed they were harder feeling too. He actually picked them out on a blind test. I’ve found a few where I’d try to make a fingernail mark and they wouldn’t mark as easily as ab original prov1.  But I’ve also noticed the yellow Prov1s seem to do that too. So idk 

[boogielicious]

5 hours ago, checkerfred said:

Interestingly enough, they were all marked Prov1 x. So I guess it must have been a sorting error.  I’ve never cut them open before. The original Prov1 has lumps on the cover so I wasn’t going to play it. You can see them on the outside of where I cut it. The other two I had on my shag bag 

I did but they weren’t out that long when I had found them. I just watched a video that Rick Shiels had done comparing them to an original. He noticed they were harder feeling too. He actually picked them out on a blind test. I’ve found a few where I’d try to make a fingernail mark and they wouldn’t mark as easily as ab original prov1.  But I’ve also noticed the yellow Prov1s seem to do that too. So idk 

Titleist tweaks the coating formula to adjust for spin when they make modifications to the interior layers. Some revisions may scratch easier than others. The top mantle layer does provide some of the feel of hardness too.  It’s a balancing act to optimize ball flight. Other OEM do the same. There have been many revisions of the ProV1 and ProV1X balls.

You can find videos and other details on the OEM sites.

 

[ChetlovesMer]

28 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Titleist tweaks the coating formula to adjust for spin when they make modifications to the interior layers. Some revisions may scratch easier than others. The top mantle layer does provide some of the feel of hardness too.  It’s a balancing act to optimize ball flight. Other OEM do the same. There have been many revisions of the ProV1 and ProV1X balls.

You can find videos and other details on the OEM sites.

 

I like those videos. BTW - Often the color of the layers is just an adder. They add the colors so that they can do internal quality checks. If all the rubber was the same color it would make it more difficult on their own QA team's inspections.