Can 15 Year Old Clubs Still Compete?

[Everardo]

Once upon a time, I was a club fitter/builder, then left the game, and recently had back surgery. So now with getting back into the game, recovering from back surgery, and selling off most of my equipment, I'm left with 3 sets of clubs, down from 10 , so I'm making progress haha. I built so many to try out and experiment with different heads, shafts, etc but I was always very picky about which clubs would stay in my primary set. So now that I have a different profession, I want to get down to 1 set of clubs.

I'm going through a similar approach to how I would choose clubs to be in my primary set.. Here's a snapshot of yesterdays session. 

The Srixon and KZG sets I build back in 2006ish The HMB's I traded for recently. Lofts were checked prior to hitting, All the other specs were recorded as well and will need to be dialed in a little more once the final set is chosen. I just finished PT and started fitness training again so I'm not as consistent as I used to be but it's a start and a process. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Everardo

[Piz]

To answer your question:  Yes.  It doesn't matter what number, or letter, is stamped on a club so long as it does the job.  I do find that most older irons have less bounce and require greater precision...especially in damp conditions.    

[Everardo]

2 minutes ago, Piz said:

To answer your question:  Yes.  It doesn't matter what number, or letter, is stamped on a club so long as it does the job.  I do find that most older irons have less bounce and require greater precision...especially in damp conditions.    

Yep, I agree and I wasn't too surprised by these, I didn't expect to see too much difference in the irons. But, I imaging I will see a lot more when I get to my hybrids, and woods.

[ChetlovesMer]

I still have a set of clubs from 1998. 
Ping ISI-K irons and a Ping ISI Titanium Driver (It's that cool upside-down looking thing).

I pull those out every now and again and play them.

The irons are fine. They're all a club or so shorter, but that's just because they are weaker lofts than "modern" sets. 

The driver is well shorter and kind of all over the place when you don't middle it. But its only 320cc head size and the shaft is a solid inch and a half shorter. But if you catch the middle or ideally just a hair towards the toe, it's got a great sound and great ball flight still. 

Can I still play them? Absolutely. I'd wager I'd score exactly the same with the irons as with my modern irons. The difference would be I'd be hitting 7 iron when today I'd normally hit 8 iron and so on. But the scorecard doesn't care what's written on the bottom of the club. 

The driver... on the other hand... Playing a 1998 driver would definitely cost me shots. It is not as long and not as forgiving... so read that as shorter and more inaccurate.... not a great combination. 

5 minutes ago, Everardo said:

Yep, I agree and I wasn't too surprised by these, I didn't expect to see too much difference in the irons. But, I imaging I will see a lot more when I get to my hybrids, and woods.

That KZG Evo 8 and 6 are pretty bunched up. That would worry me, unless it can be explained away because your hit a few of those 8 irons skinny. 

[Everardo]

4 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

That KZG Evo 8 and 6 are pretty bunched up. That would worry me, unless it can be explained away because your hit a few of those 8 irons skinny. 

That's one of the things I'm looking at as well. I also recorded all the specs on the clubs (freq, sw, length, etc) so on this first test I'm seeing the the KZG's are 3/8" longer than the other two sets, the lie angle about .5 more upright, so combining those two the effective lie is even more upright, I need to dial that down a little. Also, the sole on those are narrower than the Srixon and HMB so I suspect that's a little less forgiving. As I hit the rest of the irons and then repeat this all again, I'll be interested to see if the numbers shake out a little more. 

[Everardo]

Here's another update, this time with the 7 irons but results have been very similar with 5-P. So as many of us answered, yes, old clubs can still compete just fine. 

Now since I'm not a robot, and recovering from back surgery, I've been testing all these irons together and separately for multiple sessions over the past couple weeks. Somedays I'm better than others but this snap shot is an average of the last 10 shots.

• All the lofts and lie angles were adjusted to match.
• The same ball and launch monitor were used. 
• KZG and Srixon both have RP Project X shaft, the Mizuno's have Oban shaft.
• Swing weights vary quite a bit, the Mizuno's are D0, Srixon's D4, and KZG's are D7

	Club	Ball	Smash	Launch	Spin	Height	Carry	Total
KZG Evolution (2004)	81.9	117.3	1.43	21.4	5865	99.4	170	180
Mizuno HMB (2020)	84.0	116.0	1.38	20.4	6782	95.7	166	176
Srixon I-506 (2006)	86.0	115.5	1.34	20.7	6917	97.8	165	174

[xrayvizhen]

I find modern clubs more forgiving of off-center hits but other than the fact the lofts on newer irons are stronger, if you can hit the ball on the sweet spot on a relatively consistent basis older clubs are just as "competitive" as newer equipment. In other words, to coin an old and politically incorrect phrase, "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian."

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, xrayvizhen said:

I find modern clubs more forgiving of off-center hits but other than the fact the lofts on newer irons are stronger, if you can hit the ball on the sweet spot on a relatively consistent basis older clubs are just as "competitive" as newer equipment.

Hard disagree. It’s not just stronger lofts that go into these newer irons. The technology has made it easier to get the ball elevated and hotter faces. Increased ball speed, increased distance and forgiveness have to play a role in making them more competitive than an older iron. I’m certainly not hitting the sweet spot consistently but I’ve hit my same lofted iron PXG 0211 DC and it certainly out performs my Ping Eye 2 iron.

[xrayvizhen]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Hard disagree. It’s not just stronger lofts that go into these newer irons. The technology has made it easier to get the ball elevated and hotter faces. Increased ball speed, increased distance and forgiveness have to play a role in making them more competitive than an older iron. I’m certainly not hitting the sweet spot consistently but I’ve hit my same lofted iron PXG 0211 DC and it certainly out performs my Ping Eye 2 iron.

Let's just agree to disagree and not get into a huge debate.

Once every season I pull out my 30+ year old set of Wilson Staff blades and tour block woods and play a round to the amusement of my golf league buddies. (We all LOVE the sound the driver makes on contact.) With the irons the ball flies just as straight, just as true and with the same trajectory as my current set, the only differences being, obviously, club selection. Despite the difference in the shafts (steel vs graphite) and the fact that I'm now over 70 years old, my scores are more or less the same with either set.  Granted, I play a lot more now than I did 30 years ago when I had to work and take kids to little league games so I'm actually more consistent now than I was then.

I think it's the balls that make the most difference, not the clubs.

[Vinsk]

56 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

Let's just agree to disagree and not get into a huge debate.

Well it’s just a discussion. And I’m not sure there’s anything for you to disagree with. Pretty much fact here. Why do you believe technology has made balls go further but not irons? I don’t understand why people can be so reluctant to accept new things. 

[ChetlovesMer]

10 hours ago, xrayvizhen said:

I find modern clubs more forgiving of off-center hits but other than the fact the lofts on newer irons are stronger, if you can hit the ball on the sweet spot on a relatively consistent basis older clubs are just as "competitive" as newer equipment. In other words, to coin an old and politically incorrect phrase, "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian."

Go with "Not the arrow, It's the Archer." 

 

[pganapathy]

One of the advantages of modern clubs is lower CG.  Which means you can get the golf ball airborne more easily and that matters for most golfers.  The reason I have stopped hitting my 3 and 4 irons, and am now reducing the 5 iron, is that I don't hit it perfectly as often as before.  Of course, if your swing already gets it airborne enough, it isn't an issue, but if you struggle with that consider newer GI/SGI clubs

[boogielicious]

13 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Well it’s just a discussion. And I’m not sure there’s anything for you to disagree with. Pretty much fact here. Why do you believe technology has made balls go further but not irons? I don’t understand why people can be so reluctant to accept new things. 

I think part of the problem is top Pros are still using blades and cavity backs for their irons with near traditional lofts. People see this and don’t see why GI irons are lofted stronger. Pros don’t use GI irons, at least in 4-PW, because the hotter faces would cause the ball to balloon with their swing speed. They are actually trying to lower the ball flight, whereas the average mid to high handicap is trying to launch higher.

[xrayvizhen]

The key word in the O.P.'s original question is "compete". He didn't ask if they're better.

And yes, it depends on the skill of the "archer."

Edited December 27, 2021 by xrayvizhen

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

They are actually trying to lower the ball flight, whereas the average mid to high handicap is trying to launch higher.

This^^^.

Majority of club head tech is for amateurs for an even hit in a larger club face area and get the ball up with lower swing speed. I know it's starting to infiltrate the 'players' irons with injected foam etc. From my experience, I don't see how they would make me better. Maybe a feel thing. QA is more consistent (manufacturing in general).

Shaft customization is a big area of new tech. Lot of nuanced variation.

As far as OP, I think 15 years ago tech was pretty techy already. Plenty of low CG, bounce, MOI perimeter weighting for who wanted it. They would compete just fine. Good players or pros would/can tear it up with them all day. 

I think you gotta go 25-30 years old clubs to identify a significant break in tech. 

[Vinsk]

3 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I think part of the problem is top Pros are still using blades and cavity backs for their irons with near traditional lofts. People see this and don’t see why GI irons are lofted stronger. Pros don’t use GI irons, at least in 4-PW, because the hotter faces would cause the ball to balloon with their swing speed. They are actually trying to lower the ball flight, whereas the average mid to high handicap is trying to launch higher.

Yes I agree. I took the OP to be asking in regards to amateurs who seldom ‘hit the sweet spot relatively consistently.’  

[ChetlovesMer]

5 hours ago, GolfLug said:

As far as OP, I think 15 years ago tech was pretty techy already. Plenty of low CG, bounce, MOI perimeter weighting for who wanted it. They would compete just fine.

This 

I love in this thread how some have compared 15 years ago irons to "modern" irons. 15 years ago ARE modern irons! 

Irons from 2006 and/or 2007 had PLENTY of engineering behind them. It's not like in 2007 people were playing hickory shafted irons with stamped steel heads. 

I like shiny things as much or more than the next guy, but 2007 irons will be just fine. 

You might even be able to convince me that the Taylormade R7 quad driver or the Ping G5 driver, both of which came out in 2005. If they are properly fitted to your swing. They would be able to compete pretty close to equally against anything from the 2021 class of drivers. I'll guess 5 yards... maybe 10 for a really long hitter. 

15 years ago was far from the stone age. 

[Golfingdad]

9 hours ago, GolfLug said:

As far as OP, I think 15 years ago tech was pretty techy already. Plenty of low CG, bounce, MOI perimeter weighting for who wanted it. They would compete just fine. Good players or pros would/can tear it up with them all day. 

I think you gotta go 25-30 years old clubs to identify a significant break in tech. 

I actually opened this thread thinking/hoping the consensus would be that yes, those "old" clubs don't work anymore, giving me an excuse to upgrade. 😉  I still use "old" Ping i20s, which I bought in 2012, so not quite in the range as OPs question, but plenty of tech in those.

My old, old clubs are still even pretty decent IMO - Titleist DCI 981s from about 1998 or so.  Funny anecdote; the only time I've used these irons since 2012 was on a vacation trip in Montana - probably archived on here somewhere lol - where I shot one of my best rounds ever.

Either way - I still think I could go for some new clubs, just cuz. haha.