Iron Lofts and Gapping

[Ty_Webb]

Hi all,

 

I'm thinking about getting myself some new irons. I got my current set about 8 years ago. I'm going to go get fit, but I'm curious for any thoughts to arm me beforehand so to speak.

 

My current set has a 48* PW (Titleist 714CB/MB combo set bent 1* weak). I got them bent a degree weak because it fit my gapping better and I'm pretty steep so slightly more bounce was beneficial. Anyway, the three sets that I'm sort of thinking about at the moment are the Titleist T100, T100S and Srixon ZX7. The T100 are about 2* stronger than my current set (after they've been bent) and the T100S are basically a club stronger. The Srixon are similar to the T100.

 

The tempting thing about the T100S is right now I have 2-PW, so I could just get 3-AW and they'd be the same lofts I currently play, just a different number on the bottom. Where I'm a little lost is the length and lie are both going to be different from current. I could get them adjusted for length and lie so that they match exactly, but is that going to mess anything else up? 

 

The other thing is in the longer clubs, the gaps get smaller as the face gets straighter, so in the Srixons the 3 iron is only 2 degrees stronger than the 4 iron. Given that the 4 iron is the same loft as my current 3, I'd probably just get a driving iron and start with the 4 iron, then add another wedge to make up the gap at the top end. 

 

TIA!

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

The tempting thing about the T100S is right now I have 2-PW, so I could just get 3-AW and they'd be the same lofts I currently play, just a different number on the bottom. Where I'm a little lost is the length and lie are both going to be different from current. I could get them adjusted for length and lie so that they match exactly, but is that going to mess anything else up? 

Probably not. 
Having typed that, you are going to get fit for them. You should be able to get a feel for that in a good fitting. 

I'm curious though, why not just get the Titleist 620 MB/CBs? They are a pretty close match to what you have today. 

[Ty_Webb]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Probably not. 
Having typed that, you are going to get fit for them. You should be able to get a feel for that in a good fitting. 

I'm curious though, why not just get the Titleist 620 MB/CBs? They are a pretty close match to what you have today. 

That's a consideration, but I'm thinking that perhaps I should go with something a little more forgiving. 

[boogielicious]

21 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

Hi all,

 

I'm thinking about getting myself some new irons. I got my current set about 8 years ago. I'm going to go get fit, but I'm curious for any thoughts to arm me beforehand so to speak.

 

My current set has a 48* PW (Titleist 714CB/MB combo set bent 1* weak). I got them bent a degree weak because it fit my gapping better and I'm pretty steep so slightly more bounce was beneficial. Anyway, the three sets that I'm sort of thinking about at the moment are the Titleist T100, T100S and Srixon ZX7. The T100 are about 2* stronger than my current set (after they've been bent) and the T100S are basically a club stronger. The Srixon are similar to the T100.

 

The tempting thing about the T100S is right now I have 2-PW, so I could just get 3-AW and they'd be the same lofts I currently play, just a different number on the bottom. Where I'm a little lost is the length and lie are both going to be different from current. I could get them adjusted for length and lie so that they match exactly, but is that going to mess anything else up? 

 

The other thing is in the longer clubs, the gaps get smaller as the face gets straighter, so in the Srixons the 3 iron is only 2 degrees stronger than the 4 iron. Given that the 4 iron is the same loft as my current 3, I'd probably just get a driving iron and start with the 4 iron, then add another wedge to make up the gap at the top end. 

 

TIA!

I think you need to get some data on the new clubs first. The lofts are stronger, but the T100 will launch higher like the AP2 did versus the CB and MB. I play the 716 CB and had the 714 AP2. The AP2 were only 1 degree stronger but did launch higher. If you’re going to spend the money, get a fitting from a Titleist fitter.

[ChetlovesMer]

20 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

That's a consideration, but I'm thinking that perhaps I should go with something a little more forgiving. 

That's cool too. 
Best advice I can give you when going to a fitting is to bring your current gamers with you. Hitting them side by side will give you a lot more confidence that you are getting something better for your game. 

Unless of course you are Hell bent for new clubs, then don't bring your old gamers. Just bring the next shortest club and the next longest club you now are keeping... PW maybe, GW or SW and your first hybrid or driving iron or 5-wood or 3 wood which ever. You will want to fit your gapping into the next shortest and next longest club you know will be in your bag. 

Second best advice. Discuss what's going to happen in the fitting BEFORE you do the fitting. Including:

1. Cost of the fitting
2. Will you be reimbursed for some or all the cost if you buy new clubs?
3. Is the fitting just with a 7 iron? Or will you hit PW and 3,4 or 5 iron... what ever is the top of you bag?
4. Be sure they will let you look at the gapping at the top and bottom of your bag. If you hit your new 7-iron 150 and your first hybrid 200, it doesn't do you any good to carry a 6 through 3 iron that all go 160 to 165 yards. 
5. The same thing for the bottom of your bag. Be sure they are going to let you test drive the PW or GW or what ever. You will not want a huge gap at the bottom of your bag either. 
6. Will they bend some clubs different amounts? Some places will only bend the whole set 1 or 2 degrees. Which is fine if your gapping is good. But if you need 2 degrees weak at the bottom of your bag and 1 degree strong at the top of your bag. It sucks if they won't let you do that. 
7. An important thing to ask as well is if they will tell you the up-cost of any shaft BEFORE you try it. Do not let them have you try ANY shaft you already know you cannot afford. 

I'd be sure to discuss all of that ahead of time. There may be other concerns that are important to you. You will want to get that out there before you start. Once you start the meters running and you may have to pay even if you don't get what you want. If they say no to some of that stuff, then you can decide if you want to proceed or not. It's your money, you should know what you are getting before you start the process. Honestly, if you just want to get fit for a 7-iron, that's fine too. But you should know that going in. 

[Ty_Webb]

Thanks - that's all helpful. I've been fit at the place I'm going to before and I'm pretty sure they'll do anything I want them to. I'll be bringing my whole bag

[Everardo]

I did my own gapping session, after several sessions, over several different days, I ended up with this for now which gives me about 14 yards difference between clubs

Driver	9.5
4 Wood	16.5
Hybrid	21
5	26
6	30
7	34
8	38
9	42
P	46
A	50
G	54
L	58

 

[pganapathy]

On 1/12/2022 at 12:02 PM, Ty_Webb said:

Anyway, the three sets that I'm sort of thinking about at the moment are the Titleist T100, T100S and Srixon ZX7. The T100 are about 2* stronger than my current set (after they've been bent) and the T100S are basically a club stronger. The Srixon are similar to the T100.

Distance is a less important criterion than dispersion.  Pick the set which gives you the least variation in distance and side spin.  You should always be able to say my iron goes X distance and not worry that you might over or under shoot by 10 or 20 yards

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, Ty_Webb said:

Thanks - that's all helpful. I've been fit at the place I'm going to before and I'm pretty sure they'll do anything I want them to. I'll be bringing my whole bag

Send them out for coffee too then!

[TourSpoon]

Good topic! I love geeking out on lofts and gaps. It really is something I enjoy and my club guy/psychologist is very patient with me. After a year of new equipment, I have finally come up with a purpose for each club.  I started with a 58 over the 60 for flighting reasons and drilled down 4 degrees from there. My 718 AP2s start at 46 so that flows (last set was a 47 bent to 48 pw with a 54/60). My 4 iron and 5 iron bunched so I put the 4 down to 23 and the 5 went to 26.5 (6 is at 30). I replaced the hybrid with a U500 3 iron at 20 degrees (I call it my cheat stick). I still was not happy with the 4 iron so I got the U500 in 23 and just picked up a 18* hybrid and switch it out with the 3 iron.  Gapping is finally at a good place and I feel that my bases are covered. I said all this to let you know that I feel your pain. 

So my advice is to get your wedge game set-up and your top end set, then fill in the irons. Don't be afraid to tweak, especially at the top end as 2 and 3 degrees doesn't always cut it. I have always thought 3 degrees between 4, 5, and 6 was pushing it for me and the average single digit.  I am also a huge fan of the driving irons and blended sets. Do what make sense for you. 

Good luck! 

[mdl]

Feels like the short answer is just get fit. With the different heads and whatever shaft fits who knows how the distances will measure up against your driver, 3w, 2i, and wedge distances. The lofts only give you a starting guess for exactly how far you'll hit the clubs.

9 hours ago, Everardo said:

I did my own gapping session, after several sessions, over several different days, I ended up with this for now which gives me about 14 yards difference between clubs

 

Driver	9.5
4 Wood	16.5
Hybrid	21
5	26
6	30
7	34
8	38
9	42
P	46
A	50
G	54
L	58

Where's your 14th club?! I can see that gap between your driver and 5i begging for a 3rd club

[Everardo]

1 hour ago, mdl said:

Feels like the short answer is just get fit. With the different heads and whatever shaft fits who knows how the distances will measure up against your driver, 3w, 2i, and wedge distances. The lofts only give you a starting guess for exactly how far you'll hit the clubs.

Where's your 14th club?! I can see that gap between your driver and 5i begging for a 3rd club

Yeah I had 7 different options for hybrids between 19 and 25 degrees that were between 180 and 204 yards. They all offered different launches, spin, and decent angles so that's something to consider. 

Yeah totally have room for a 14th, maybe I'll carry two drivers like Phil haha

[trombettista_vecchio]

On 1/13/2022 at 10:01 AM, Everardo said:

I did my own gapping session, after several sessions, over several different days, I ended up with this for now which gives me about 14 yards difference between clubs

 

Driver	9.5
4 Wood	16.5
Hybrid	21
5	26
6	30
7	34
8	38
9	42
P	46
A	50
G	54
L	58

 

Driver___________________________12.5°

Driving iron_____________________18°

5-wood_________________________18°

7-wood_________________________21°

9-wood_________________________24°

5-iron___________________________27°

6-iron___________________________30°

7-iron___________________________34°

8-iron___________________________38°

9-iron___________________________42°

W1______________________________48°

W2______________________________53°

W3______________________________58°

P_________________________________3°

Because I play with a top-heavy set (5 long clubs),  I have bigger gaps at the short end.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by trombettista_vecchio

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, trombettista_vecchio said:

Driver___________________________12.5°

Driving iron_____________________18°

5-wood_________________________18°

7-wood_________________________21°

9-wood_________________________24°

5-iron___________________________27°

6-iron___________________________30°

7-iron___________________________34°

8-iron___________________________38°

9-iron___________________________42°

W1______________________________48°

W2______________________________53°

W3______________________________58°

P_________________________________3°

Because I play with a top-heavy set (5 long clubs),  I have bigger gaps at the short end.

 

 

Greetings, 

I'm going to suggest that what you've posted isn't your gapping. 

The lofts don't really tell you that much about your gapping. How far you hit them is more important. An example I have a 30 degree seven Iron. I will normally carry a 26 degree 6 iron. But I also have a 6-iron which is a hybrid style that is also 30 degrees. I hit the 7-iron from 155 to 170 and both six irons about 165-185 and Even though the loft on my 6 iron built like a hybrid is the same as my 7 iron, I can carry it quite a bit farther. The distance you hit the club are what is important to gapping, not the specs of the club. 

Many many golfers carry a 6, a 5, a 4 and sometimes even a 3 iron and hit them all about the same length. Even though the specs on them are quite different. If they looked closely at their gapping they may drop one or two of those clubs in favor of a hybrid or a 7 wood or what ever. 

My suggestion is that you stop worrying about the specs your clubs are built to and start worrying about how far you hit each one. Plus what's the range you can hit each one, meaning if this is your 150 club, can you push it to 160, can you knock it down to 140? etc. 

[Double Mocha Man]

Chet is correct.  I carry 5 wedges.  While the gap between my 54 and 56 degree wedges is only 2 degrees there is almost a 15 yard gap between them.  

[MrGator]

What are the lofts in your iron set?

[Ty_Webb]

I had my iron fitting yesterday. As I noted above, my current iron set is a blended set of Titleist 714MB and CB. I have CB in 2, 3 and 4 and MB in 5-PW. I have C-taper 125S+ shafts and they are 1.75" long (38.75" 7 iron). On GC Quad yesterday I was at around 97-98 clubhead speed. 122-123 or so ball speed. Launching about 22-24* with 7 iron. Titleist 7 iron is 35* I think. I present a lot of loft at impact. He said that was indicative that the tip might be too stiff (not sure if he meant weak there, but he said stiff). Previous shafts I've had include DG X100 and tour concept X100. I always liked those, but have got used to the C-tapers now.

I want to switch to something with a little more help. Apparently also my combo set has such a different CoG between the CB and MB that the blend is a big difference. Anyway, I'm leaning heavily towards the Srixon ZX7 heads, but my question is more about the shafts. I have been playing these for about 8 years now. I bought a set of P7TWs which wound up coming with DG tour issue S400 and they are 1" long and about 4 degrees flatter than my current set. Strangely enough, I didn't really get on with them and went back to my Titleists. I don't play a huge amount. Roughly 25 rounds a year, with 8-10 of those being in a one week stretch typically. 

Given the amount I play, my fitter was suggesting that we don't change the shaft profile much, if at all, and leave the length the same too. Problem is the C-tapers are virtually impossible to find. He's trying, but he suggested giving the Project X LS in 6.5 a try. It feels fairly similar to the C-taper, but I'm not sure that I like it (or for that matter the C-taper). I asked him right at the end if there was a Modus shaft that was similar. He said the 130x would be closest, but it was not particularly close. I asked if we could try it just for a couple of swings. He didn't have one at anything other than standard length, so it was 1.75" shorter than I'm used to. I quite liked how it felt and I hit three shots with it that all went pretty close to straight. He said that he wouldn't suggest that shaft even if I played 100 rounds a year, just because it's so different from what I'm used to.

I'm wondering what people's thoughts are about switching to the Nippons. They are much more readily available than the C-tapers for certain and not sure about the Project X LS. 

Thanks!

[Darkfrog]

I switched from DG X100 to NS Pro Modus Tour 120 x-flex when I got fitted into new ZX5 irons about a year ago. I'm happy with the set, but I don't have my old set anymore so I can't really tell you how the feel compares, and honestly I probably couldn't tell the difference in feel.

The main thing that I recall from the fitting is that the weight made the biggest difference in how the club felt. The Modus 105 felt too light, and the 130 felt too heavy, and 120 felt the best. I hit the ball about the same with all of them.

My 7-iron vertical launch angle didn't change (18 deg average), even though I think the new heads are around 3 degrees stronger (I'm guessing this is due to the head technology causing them to launch a little higher, and not shaft related).