Team Disqualified, Banned for Cheating in Charity Golf Tournament at Moose Run Golf Course

[Double Mocha Man]

27 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

This is why the only time I play in scramble tournaments is when it's either set up for members/guests of a private course (with strong discouragement/penalties for cheating), if it's for a charity I like, or if it's on some private course I'd otherwise be unable to play and want to try out.

When I was a plus handicap years ago I played a scramble with one pro and two other plus handicaps because one was a friend who wanted to put together a team of ringers to win the event. We shot a 52 (par 71, 19 under) on a course regularly used for US Open qualifiers, and we still "lost" to a group of guys who regularly struggled to get the ball into the air on the range and out on the course. My buddy had assumed that blatant/obvious cheaters like that would've had their scores tossed out since it was a reasonably large event that was put on by the local PGA chapter, but it wasn't and they kept the not-insubstantial (but not amateur disqualifying) prizes for winning. 

After that experience I decided to only play in scrambles if I liked or wanted to try a particular course and had some friends to just enjoy an afternoon with while potentially supporting a cause I agree with. Outside of private events that are organized by courses or specific groups that will monitor and prevent cheating, I don't go into any scramble with the expectation of doing anything but having fun with friends out on the golf course. 

You can read about all the horrors of playing in a scramble online.  My favorite is the team that calls into the clubhouse to ask a friend what the posted winning score is.  Then, with deft pencil eraser work, their group comes in one stroke better.  

What's the point?!  Why not just go out and trip an old lady using a walker?

[Friz]

The original story here I'll never understand, because the prize is so unsubstantial that you're basically playing for the pride of winning....why cheat for a trophy that has no value to anyone else?  Are you going to look at that trophy with fond memories of how you pulled one over on everyone?

But the stories of obvious cheating happening in scrambles are so common.  If there is an official tournament with a reasonable prize for winning, it seems like the very least they could do is send an official scorekeeper out with each group to keep things honest, otherwise this seems to happen all the time. 

[Shindig]

34 minutes ago, Friz said:

But the stories of obvious cheating happening in scrambles are so common.  If there is an official tournament with a reasonable prize for winning, it seems like the very least they could do is send an official scorekeeper out with each group to keep things honest, otherwise this seems to happen all the time. 

How many of the tournaments with prizes have the personnel to send a scorekeeper with each group?  I think finding volunteers would be quite tough.

Having a roaming marshal or two might be possible, but this is a hazard of a sport that is typically played without rules officials. 

[Double Mocha Man]

36 minutes ago, Friz said:

But the stories of obvious cheating happening in scrambles are so common.  If there is an official tournament with a reasonable prize for winning, it seems like the very least they could do is send an official scorekeeper out with each group to keep things honest, otherwise this seems to happen all the time. 

I read about the foursome that won the scramble one year with a 17 under par.  So the next year the pro decided to follow them in a cart.  Same foursome shot 10 over!

[The Flush]

I played a scramble last year that had 2 teams on each hole.  No cheating, but a hellish 6 hour round of golf.

[Friz]

10 minutes ago, Shindig said:

How many of the tournaments with prizes have the personnel to send a scorekeeper with each group?  I think finding volunteers would be quite tough.

Having a roaming marshal or two might be possible, but this is a hazard of a sport that is typically played without rules officials. 

Yeah I understand the logistics aren't ideal, but something has to be better than the honor system with money on the line....its had plenty of chances to prove it just doesn't work without accountability

[WillieT]

The only scramble I’ve played that had prizes, we knew we would not win.  After seeing the scores and the winning team playing behind us, I can see how serious score deflation happens.  They were all over the course, truly army golf….anyway, we had fun knowing we would not win.  On the other hand, our monthly men’s group scramble is anything but serious.  It’s the meal after we play for - local pizza joint with good food and good friends.

[imsys0042]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

This is why the only time I play in scramble tournaments is when it's either set up for members/guests of a private course (with strong discouragement/penalties for cheating), if it's for a charity I like, or if it's on some private course I'd otherwise be unable to play and want to try out.

 

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

What's the point?!  Why not just go out and trip an old lady using a walker?

Who says they don't do that as well?

1 hour ago, Shindig said:

How many of the tournaments with prizes have the personnel to send a scorekeeper with each group?  I think finding volunteers would be quite tough.

I know I've said it in other threads, but the private course I used to belong to back when I lived in Western PA had to have someone who worked there go out in the annual ClubCorp scramble tournament.   Each ClubCiorp club would send a team to the finals and you had a qualifying round at your own course to select the winning team to send to the finals.   All expenses were paid by ClubCorp.

What's funny is watching these people, many of them very well off, cheat to get that free trip when they could go whenever they want to some place like that.   We got the "under 40" rate for dues, which was a little less than half off so it worked for us.  However we felt weird about the gap between us and some of the members (who of course told everyone who much money they had).   But truly, money cannot buy class, and a number of them were low level cheaters.

 

[The Flush]

My team won cheap generic golf hats from Wal-mart for 3rd place with a -7 in the last scramble I played in. While it is clear we didn't cheat with that score, maybe if we had known that it only took -11 for first place to win a dozen golf balls each or -9 for second place a a sleeve of ball each we could have adjusted accordingly.  It was a church mission fundraiser with a small field. 

[rd19590]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:00 PM, StuM said:

I wonder how they got informant on the team.  Usually charity outings are groups of people that know each other.

If they cheat for a plastic trophy and some misc. swag, what do they do at other times?

People that do something like this think it's only wrong if they get caught. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by rd19590

[darthweasel]

7 hours ago, RayG said:

And that was only because they had an informant on THAT team. IMHO, the other top teams probably had a bit of shenanigans going on as well. Figuring if they put in for a 56 or 57, that should be enough to win. They just didn't expect that this team would cheat more than they did. 

reminds me of how they DQ'd Lance Armstrong for his cheating...but didn't award the win to anybody because of how many of the "next in line to win" bikers were ALSO known, accused or suspected to be cheating...there are some, depending on your feeling towards cycling, hilarious or tragic articles by people who tried to track down the top finishing rider who had not failed a test, been a patient of a doctor convicted of doping their riders, part of a team sanctioned for cheating or in some other way associated...

Sad when it is a golf charity tournament for nothing but not all that surprising. People who tend to have integrity tend to do so whether it is large or small.

[Friz]

39 minutes ago, rd19590 said:

People that do something like this think it's only wrong if they get caught. 

I'd be willing to bet they still don't think they did anything wrong despite getting caught, they're probably convinced everyone cheated and they're the only ones unfairly punished

[saevel25]

I had a group that cheated my team out of a win. It was for a college that my cousin worked at. The team that won was some of the faculty for the school. Apparently, they were using a radio to tell them the winning score before they showed up last to put their score in. Irony, I liked the 2nd place gift better than the 1st place 😛. 

Nothing you can do there, the college cheated to keep 1st place with the college? Like, WTF! 

[RayG]

Maybe, just maybe... they are misunderstanding the phrase "that's good...". 

I think I've mentioned this before, but many years ago I would play with a buddy of mine- he wasn't great, but he enjoyed himself. Usually shot around 90-95. He moved away to Hilton Head for a job and I went to visit 2-3 years later. He was really intent on showing me how much he has improved since he was now regularly breaking 90 and sometimes get to 85. Somewhere in those 2 years he played with his "X-Ray Tech buddies", (they played for fun, no money, leagues or anything) he started hearing "that's good...". And proceeded accordingly- picked up and went on to the next tee.

Okay- I arrive for a week's stay to play a couple of the courses that he's arranged- Harbor Town, Sea Pines, Dataw Island, etc... We played Sea Pines first and around the 4th or 5th Hole he has a long putt for par, strokes one up nice and close- tap in range. I tell him "that's good, take it away". I finish up with a bogey 5. Get to the next tee and I'm looking at the scorecard and I see he marked a '4' for him and a 5 for me. "What did you get on that last one?" "Huh? a four, you gave me that last putt."

"Ummm, no.. I gave you the NEXT putt."

What?

Yeah, you made a nice attempt at a par putt, and I gave you the next one for a 5...

What?

What did you THINK I meant?

I thought you gave me that one because it was a good putt..

No, that's not how that works.

I could see the look of confusion and panic setting in after realizing that he hasn't exactly been getting any better, just not counting a few strokes when "that one is good". BUT- he didn't get all angry about it. I started to laugh and told him "I thought you said you were getting better and I was in for some payback!, You still suck AND you're a cheater!!!". We were hysterical.. "then he thought about his buddies.. "Oh, crap, what do you think they think of me?". Like I said- you suck and still can't beat them, even if you are cheating! We ran into one his friends at the bar at Harbor Town the next time out and he related his little nugget of information. Again, hysterics ensued and he told him the same thing I did. Even an honest cheater can't win...

Edited July 12, 2022 by RayG

[colin007]

From the article, someone's name is "Halcyon"???

[Shindig]

1 hour ago, RayG said:

Maybe, just maybe... they are misunderstanding the phrase "that's good...". 

I think I've mentioned this before, but many years ago I would play with a buddy of mine- he wasn't great, but he enjoyed himself. Usually shot around 90-95. He moved away to Hilton Head for a job and I went to visit 2-3 years later. He was really intent on showing me how much he has improved since he was now regularly breaking 90 and sometimes get to 85. Somewhere in those 2 years he played with his "X-Ray Tech buddies", (they played for fun, no money, leagues or anything) he started hearing "that's good...". And proceeded accordingly- picked up and went on to the next tee.

Okay- I arrive for a week's stay to play a couple of the courses that he's arranged- Harbor Town, Sea Pines, Dataw Island, etc... We played Sea Pines first and around the 4th or 5th Hole he has a long putt for par, strokes one up nice and close- tap in range. I tell him "that's good, take it away". I finish up with a bogey 5. Get to the next tee and I'm looking at the scorecard and I see he marked a '4' for him and a 5 for me. "What did you get on that last one?" "Huh? a four, you gave me that last putt."

"Ummm, no.. I gave you the NEXT putt."

What?

Yeah, you made a nice attempt at a par putt, and I gave you the next one for a 5...

What?

What did you THINK I meant?

I thought you gave me that one because it was a good putt..

No, that's not how that works.

I could see the look of confusion and panic setting in after realizing that he hasn't exactly been getting any better, just not counting a few strokes when "that one is good". BUT- he didn't get all angry about it. I started to laugh and told him "I thought you said you were getting better and I was in for some payback!, You still suck AND you're a cheater!!!". We were hysterical.. "then he thought about his buddies.. "Oh, crap, what do you think they think of me?". Like I said- you suck and still can't beat them, even if you are cheating! We ran into one his friends at the bar at Harbor Town the next time out and he related his little nugget of information. Again, hysterics ensued and he told him the same thing I did. Even an honest cheater can't win...

Ah, so he thought "that's good" was something akin to "I think that should have gone in, you get credit for it anyway" instead of "let's assume you make the next one."

[RayG]

2 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Ah, so he thought "that's good" was something akin to "I think that should have gone in, you get credit for it anyway" instead of "let's assume you make the next one."

Exactly... it wasn't obvious 'cheating', so much as ignorance. 

[Friz]

29 minutes ago, RayG said:

Exactly... it wasn't obvious 'cheating', so much as ignorance. 

Man, while I absolutely see the humor in this, its wild to me the train of thought to get where he was.  Basically, "my playing partner can elect to make the hole 4 or 5 feet bigger, and I get to use that giant hole when putting instead of the normal one, and my score with the big hole is completely legit."