Distance Determination Percentages

[Zippo]

I wasn't sure how to title this post so please change to a better one if you've got one.

I played with a fellow today who banged the ball remarkably well. His best drive was substantially better than mine. His iron work also outperformed mine. I was playing well (for me) and certainly wasn't embarrassed but I was amazed at how far this fellow could hit it. He's about my age, a bit shorter than me with a paunch a bit smaller than mine. Certainly not any stronger (that I could see) than I am. So, my question would be, in the following categories, which percentages contribute the most to good distance (including both irons and driving) in your opinion?

1 - Quality of contact

2 - Golf Equipment (iron model, driver model, etc)

3 - Golf ball manufacturer/model

4 - Technique

5 - Physique

6 - Something else?

So, for example:

1 - 20%

2 - 10%

3 - 5 %

4 - 30%

5 - 35%

6 - ?

[iacas]

There's no way to do this kind of thing.

Clubhead speed is first, because the big first one is ball speed. Clubs behave differently, too: a 10mm miss with one club will behave differently than 10mm with another club.

Swing fast. Hit it on the center of the face enough. De-loft the right amount.

[billchao]

Speed, speed, speed. If you swing fast, you’re more likely to hit the ball far.

[Zippo]

12 hours ago, billchao said:

Speed, speed, speed. If you swing fast, you’re more likely to hit the ball far.

I get what you're saying but it seems overly simplified. There must be some technique involved or you could swing superfast and miss it completely or present the hosel to the ball. Also, it seems to me that a better physique is going to help promote a faster swing than a "poor" physique, but then maybe good technique can overcome a poor physique. Do all golf balls fly the same distance given the same swing speed or are the differences too small to matter?

Personally, it sometimes "feels" as if I've given everything I had to the swing, struck the ball well, and still not think it's gone as far as it should have gone for the amount of effort I "feel" I put into the swing. Which leads me think (perhaps wrongly) that if my technique were better, I might get more out of the same swing.

On the same note, when I watched the fellow yesterday, his swing didn't "appear" any faster than mine but it certainly looked more fluid than mine "feels". It also seemed like he might be getting his peak speed at the ball (or very near to it). Whereas, I may be delivering my peak speed too early or too late and again, that seems like a technique thing more than simply a swing speed thing.

 

[klineka]

17 minutes ago, Zippo said:

I get what you're saying but it seems overly simplified. There must be some technique involved or you could swing superfast and miss it completely or present the hosel to the ball.

Of course there's technique involved. @billchao never claimed there wasn't technique involved. I can swing it and have ball speeds just as fast if not faster than some PGA Tour players but they're all like 10+ shots better than me partly because their technique is significantly better than mine even though we have similar swing and ball speeds.

 

19 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Also, it seems to me that a better physique is going to help promote a faster swing than a "poor" physique, but then maybe good technique can overcome a poor physique.

I mean of course a better physique is going to promote a faster swing than a poor one, and sure a good technique can overcome a poor physique but only to a certain extent. 

Let's go to the extreme of examples. Take someone who is very short, say under 5 feet tall. They could have perfect technique (if there was such a thing as "perfect" technique) but their physique will limit them as far as how fast they can swing. I'm 6'3"-6'4", lift weights 5-6x a week and a former college athlete so even without perfect technique I will be able to swing it much faster than someone who is let's say 4'10" or something.

[darthweasel]

31 minutes ago, Zippo said:

I Also, it seems to me that a better physique is going to help promote a faster swing than a "poor" physique, 

 

John Daly has entered the chat

[Vinsk]

40 minutes ago, Zippo said:

I get what you're saying but it seems overly simplified. There must be some technique involved or you could swing superfast and miss it completely or present the hosel to the ball. Also, it seems to me that a better physique is going to help promote a faster swing than a "poor" physique, but then maybe good technique can overcome a poor physique. Do all golf balls fly the same distance given the same swing speed or are the differences too small to matter?

Personally, it sometimes "feels" as if I've given everything I had to the swing, struck the ball well, and still not think it's gone as far as it should have gone for the amount of effort I "feel" I put into the swing. Which leads me think (perhaps wrongly) that if my technique were better, I might get more out of the same swing.

On the same note, when I watched the fellow yesterday, his swing didn't "appear" any faster than mine but it certainly looked more fluid than mine "feels". It also seemed like he might be getting his peak speed at the ball (or very near to it). Whereas, I may be delivering my peak speed too early or too late and again, that seems like a technique thing more than simply a swing speed thing.

 

As was mentioned by Erik there are a number of factors. But the first factor is speed. If he’s swinging 10-15mph faster then that’s pretty substantial. If you’re equal in speed then you have to consider contact quality, then equipment factors. Going by feels and observation has low accuracy in determining why someone hits the ball further than you. 

[GolfLug]

My 2 cents.. A club head has to deliver momentum to ball (quantity), i.e, speed and then it has to be square enough for effective transfer of the momentum from club to ball (quality). Glancing blows are no good. There is also optimum spin and launch for whatever ball speed is generated to maximize ball flight (good club fitting, I think). In summary, the resulting ball speed is a combo club momentum (speed...really), club path and face squareness to path. Hard to put percentages on it as they are not apples to apples aspects.

Then the question is how Player A generates more momentum and better club path/face squareness then Player B. Welp, as you would guess, club path/face squareness is 'technique' and then speed is prolly a combo of technique + physical attributes. 

Personally, a good combo of mechanical leverage (technique) is indispensable in golf. Golf clubs have an inherently high amount of leverage (compared to let's say a tennis racquet) by design so reasonable speed will come from just that. Additional athletic speed is on top if you can add. 

I am guessing your friend has better technique AND more physical speed to generate substantially more distance than you. And prolly was straighter too.. 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Zippo said:

I get what you're saying but it seems overly simplified.

Of course it is, but you're trying to figure out why someone hit the ball farther than you on the course. The answer is, how can we possibly know?

1 hour ago, Zippo said:

There must be some technique involved or you could swing superfast and miss it completely or present the hosel to the ball. Also, it seems to me that a better physique is going to help promote a faster swing than a "poor" physique, but then maybe good technique can overcome a poor physique. Do all golf balls fly the same distance given the same swing speed or are the differences too small to matter?

Of course quality of contact matters. Angle of attack, dynamic loft, launch angle, spin rate, all of that matters. There's no way to categorize this by percentage as you intended when you started this thread.

1 hour ago, Zippo said:

Personally, it sometimes "feels" as if I've given everything I had to the swing, struck the ball well, and still not think it's gone as far as it should have gone for the amount of effort I "feel" I put into the swing. Which leads me think (perhaps wrongly) that if my technique were better, I might get more out of the same swing.

Swinging harder does not necessarily mean you're swinging faster.

1 hour ago, Zippo said:

On the same note, when I watched the fellow yesterday, his swing didn't "appear" any faster than mine but it certainly looked more fluid than mine "feels".

You can't really tell how fast someone swings by looking at them.

2 hours ago, Zippo said:

It also seemed like he might be getting his peak speed at the ball (or very near to it). Whereas, I may be delivering my peak speed too early or too late and again, that seems like a technique thing more than simply a swing speed thing.

It's both. Better technique allows you to swing faster.

[Zippo]

3 hours ago, billchao said:

Of course it is, but you're trying to figure out why someone hit the ball farther than you on the course. The answer is, how can we possibly know?

Of course quality of contact matters. Angle of attack, dynamic loft, launch angle, spin rate, all of that matters. There's no way to categorize this by percentage as you intended when you started this thread.

Swinging harder does not necessarily mean you're swinging faster.

You can't really tell how fast someone swings by looking at them.

It's both. Better technique allows you to swing faster.

Thanks. 

[Zippo]

I think this video helped answer some of my questions in a way I could relate to:

At around 13:40 he talks a bit about sequencing. I think of as timing but sequencing works, too.

[TourSpoon]

On 11/3/2022 at 10:43 AM, Zippo said:

On the same note, when I watched the fellow yesterday, his swing didn't "appear" any faster than mine but it certainly looked more fluid than mine "feels". It also seemed like he might be getting his peak speed at the ball (or very near to it). Whereas, I may be delivering my peak speed too early or too late and again, that seems like a technique thing more than simply a swing speed thing.

Aside from what everyone else said (club head speed, quality of contact) this comment stands out. People that look “fluid,” “make it look easy,” and hit it a mile are deceiving. Freddie and Ernie appear to be slow swingers, but their club head speed is right up there with the “faster” swingers like Nick Price. Admittedly this is a dated reference but it illustrates the point that smoothness does not mean giving anything up especially when you are looking at club head speed through the golf ball. Many amateurs who transition really fast don’t use it effectively like Price did as they throw it away due to poor technique so a fast swing isn’t really faster. 

It sounds like your buddy applies his power where it counts and that’s what has you scratching your head. Better sequencing leads to better contact and the smooth guys just make it look effortless. 
 

 

[Zippo]

3 hours ago, TourSpoon said:

It sounds like your buddy applies his power where it counts and that’s what has you scratching your head. Better sequencing leads to better contact and the smooth guys just make it look effortless. 

Thanks. I’m sure you’re right. I’m throwing my “speed” away in the wrong place. 

[billchao]

4 hours ago, Zippo said:

Thanks. I’m sure you’re right. I’m throwing my “speed” away in the wrong place. 

Or you’re simply not generating as much as the other guy. How can you possibly know? You’re assuming, based on a number of other assumptions, that you’re capable of swinging as fast as someone else. Some people just have faster muscles.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

Or you’re simply not generating as much as the other guy. How can you possibly know? You’re assuming, based on a number of other assumptions, that you’re capable of swinging as fast as someone else. Some people just have faster muscles.

I almost said the same thing earlier today.

Improving technique will undoubtedly help you hit it farther. But you might still not hit it as far as he does.

[Zippo]

3 hours ago, billchao said:

Or you’re simply not generating as much as the other guy. How can you possibly know? You’re assuming, based on a number of other assumptions, that you’re capable of swinging as fast as someone else. Some people just have faster muscles.

No, that's not quite accurate. I'm assuming that I can improve my club head speed by improving my sequencing. And I don't know it of course, but maybe I can swing even faster than he can. Who knows? In any event. I'm pretty sure that I can improve.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Zippo

[iacas]

37 minutes ago, Zippo said:

No, that's not quite accurate. I'm assuming that I can improve my club head speed by improving my sequencing. And I don't know it of course, but maybe I can swing even faster than he can. Who knows? In any event. I'm pretty sure that I can improve.

You can't say it's not accurate… because it might very well be the truth: he's capable of generating more speed than you are. Possibly.

[TourSpoon]

10 hours ago, Zippo said:

I'm pretty sure that I can improve.

This is the most accurate statement I have read so far. The measurement should be improvement against yourself and having a plan to do so. Your friend sparked something in you that you should use for motivation for self improvement.