2023 Ryder Cup

[PatrickMurtha]

Have it your way, and have a nice day! 🙄

[jmanbooyaa]

  On 8/29/2023 at 7:08 PM, klineka said:

You mentioned popularity and then your next sentence talked about how Fowler hadn't shown you enough so didn't seem like that far of a reach to assume Fowler was one of the ones you thought made it on popularity.

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I can see how that was interpreted and the fact that Fowler’s name carries such. 

[GolfLug]

I see what y'all doin' here and hope JT and RF are reading all this. That's right, fire them up yall!! 

[PatrickMurtha]

Justin Thomas got his Ryder Cup dream. It could become his nightmare

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The U.S. Ryder Cup team is set, and the player who will be feeling the most pressure in Rome is crystal clear.

—Thomas…is longtime friends with Johnson, who clearly placed an emphasis on familiarity in his captain’s pick selections…the risk…comes along with this decision, the stakes of which are clear as day. It is a gamble — the gamble — that will come to decide [Johnson’s] captaincy.

In picking his pal, Johnson has raised the attention significantly on the construction of a U.S. roster hoping to glean the first American victory on European soil in three decades. Should the Americans find success in Rome, Johnson will be a genius and Thomas’ last six months will be vanquished. Should they find failure, Johnson will be vilified and Thomas demonized.

That much was clear from even a cursory glance around the golf world in the aftermath of Tuesday’s announcement,…where fans…criticized Johnson’s decision as spurning the team’s “best” construction in favor of upholding an American “boys’ club.”

…There were other players on the brink of a roster spot who hadn’t carded an 80 in months, and it was fair to wonder Tuesday why those players will spend September at home while Thomas packs for Italy.

……Johnson did not leave JT at home. But that will not quiet the conversation about whether he should have in the weeks leading up to Rome, and it certainly will not quiet the conversation if Thomas finds himself struggling again when balls are in the air at Marco Simone.

…There will be no shortage of pressure coming Thomas’ way now. He enters Rome as the team’s most scrutinized player by a significant margin. There will be nowhere to hide if the week doesn’t go according to plan, and this time the burden of blame will be much heavier. This is stress like Thomas (and Johnson) have never faced before — the self-inflicted kind.—

(Ah yes, my takes were “absurd”. 🙂)

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by PatrickMurtha

[jmanbooyaa]

Harmons win at The Open vaulting him into the 6 auto picks probably made Johnson pivot with a pick. 

[klineka]

  On 8/29/2023 at 9:01 PM, PatrickMurtha said:

  (Ah yes, my takes were “absurd”. 🙂)

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Your takes that JT should have removed himself and calling Zach Johnson clueless are absurd, yes. 

It's one thing to state that JT shouldn't have been picked, I never said that take is absurd, but saying that you think JT should have removed himself is ridiculous. 

Zach has access to more information and knowledge about these golfers than any of us ever will, and since you have absolutely no idea what went into his decision making process to pick JT I don't see how you can sit here and say he is clueless, especially when defined as "having no knowledge, understanding, or ability" and "ignorant, unaware, or uninformed".

You honestly think Zach Johnson had no knowledge or understanding and was unaware or uninformed in making that pick? 

[iacas]

  On 8/29/2023 at 9:01 PM, PatrickMurtha said:

(Ah yes, my takes were “absurd”. 🙂)

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I didn’t see in that article where they said Justin Thomas should recuse himself. So, yes, your takes are absurd IMO as well.

And even if the article had said that, it’s not like it would be the first time in history that an absurd opinion has been shared by more than one person.

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JT is on the team because of chemistry and his record. They will send him out with Jordan and if it goes poorly he might sit until singles but can still irritate the Europeans and rally the American team because of who he is.

The Europeans didn’t want JT getting in their ear and doing his thing. That alone may warrant the pick.

Keegan had a pretty bad year except for winning a high payout event which excessively vaulted him up the list.

Lucas Glover got hot for two weeks but hasn’t done much else.

You can attribute Sam Burns to Scottie Scheffler wanting him there.

So Jordan got Justin, Max got Collin, Scotty got Sam, Patrick and Xander are already on the team…

[jmanbooyaa]

  On 8/30/2023 at 11:52 AM, iacas said:

I didn’t see in that article where they said Justin Thomas should recuse himself. So, yes, your takes are absurd IMO as well.

And even if the article had said that, it’s not like it would be the first time in history that an absurd opinion has been shared by more than one person.

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Unless JT is hurt or was caught cheating in a tournament i see no reason for him to bow out. Would I have picked him, maybe no but I don’t have the golf IQ to make an informed decision like Johnson.  I am going off my opinion and how I interpreted his play this season. Again the Ryder Cup could be that lighting bolt for him to have an amazing 24 season. Just look at Scottie S. No wins entering into the 21 cup. He went on win the Masters the following year and is #1 player in the world. 

[snow bird]

  On 8/29/2023 at 3:56 PM, jmanbooyaa said:

I would have liked Bradley to make the team. Good season and has some fire. Not a great look to add JT at current form. 

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Keegan should be on the team as well as Tony Finau and Lucas Glover. You have the Captains picks so you can get players who are on the rise with their game. JT, Spieth and Burns do not qualify for this criteria. This mumbo Jumbo about team chemistry is just nonsense. I think there was some pressure from big money sponsors who calculate that big name recognition is more important than actual quality of play. If they get a 10% larger viewing audience in a loss to Europe it is better then a victory with 10% less viewers. Sadly it comes down to the almighty advertisers dollar. 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by snow bird

[klineka]

  On 8/30/2023 at 12:13 PM, snow bird said:

Keegan should be on the team as well as Tony Finau and Lucas Glover. You have the Captains picks so you can get players who are on the rise with their game

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This has to be a joke, right?

Since Finau won in April, in 11 starts he has missed 3 cuts, 3 finishes of T45 or worse vs. just 1 top 10 (a T7) and his next best finish was a T20 last weekend but it was only a 30 man field. 

So in over half of his starts since April he has either missed the cut or finished T45 or worse.

What about that indicates that he is on the rise with his game?

  On 8/30/2023 at 12:13 PM, snow bird said:

JT, Spieth and Burns do not qualify for this criteria.

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Another simply absurd take.

Please provide facts to back up your claim. 

In Spieth's last 11 starts (to view from the same lens as Finau) he has 3 top 6 finishes (A loss in a playoff, a T5 at the Memorial, a T6 in the first playoff event) while missing 4 cuts and his worst finish while making the cut was T34. 

How is Finau's game on the rise but Spieth's doesn't qualify for that criteria?

 

Here is Finau and Spieth's Total Strokes gained by round via datagolf. Below the blue line is when they have performed worse than Tour average and above the blue line is when they have performed better than tour average. The white line is a 50 round moving average of their Total Strokes Gained.

Finau

 

Spieth

 

I sure would like to see some data that shows how Finau's game is on the rise but Spieth's isn't.

[iacas]

  On 8/30/2023 at 12:13 PM, snow bird said:

Keegan should be on the team as well as Tony Finau and Lucas Glover. You have the Captains picks so you can get players who are on the rise with their game.

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You think Tony’s game is on the rise? Keegan played well like twice. Ditto Lucas.

  On 8/30/2023 at 12:13 PM, snow bird said:

This mumbo Jumbo about team chemistry is just nonsense.

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And yet when the lesser skilled Euros were kicking butt all we heard about was their camaraderie.

[ChetlovesMer]

I heard on the radio yesterday that since the field expanded to include the rest of Europe instead of just Great Britain, the home team has won about 70% of the time. 

Feels like if you are going to bet on the Ryder Cup, you should just bet the home team. 

[jmanbooyaa]

  On 8/30/2023 at 1:00 PM, iacas said:

You think Tony’s game is on the rise? Keegan played well like twice. Ditto Lucas.

And yet when the lesser skilled Euros were kicking butt all we heard about was their camaraderie.

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This plays more than most thinks. Just look at Rees prior to his Liv exit. He didn’t mess well with others. Tiger was paired with him out of last resort a few years ago. Spieth played well with him years ago but opted for JT last time over seas. Team camaraderie plays which is what @iacas is saying and I have to agree

What pairings do you think the US starts with opening secession?  Speith JT out first, Scottie and Burns 2nd and Cantlay and Xander 3rd. Got me for 4th and final in opening secession. Just my opinion. 

[Big C]

JT was a borderline call based on current form, but far more defensible when you look at the totality of his team-play resume. Not many Americans have a record as impressive as JT's. Would you rather throw in a first timer like Glover or Young into a pressure packed match on European soil? Or a guy with the track record below?

 

He's 16-5-3 in Presidents Cups and Ryder Cups combined, and 6-2-1 in just Ryder Cups. Thomas is on a path to be the best team match-play golfer in U.S. history, and this is the single most salient, repeatable, and critical fact in this entire debate.

 

[snow bird]

  On 8/30/2023 at 12:48 PM, klineka said:

This has to be a joke, right?

Since Finau won in April, in 11 starts he has missed 3 cuts, 3 finishes of T45 or worse vs. just 1 top 10 (a T7) and his next best finish was a T20 last weekend but it was only a 30 man field. 

So in over half of his starts since April he has either missed the cut or finished T45 or worse.

What about that indicates that he is on the rise with his game?

Another simply absurd take.

Please provide facts to back up your claim. 

In Spieth's last 11 starts (to view from the same lens as Finau) he has 3 top 6 finishes (A loss in a playoff, a T5 at the Memorial, a T6 in the first playoff event) while missing 4 cuts and his worst finish while making the cut was T34. 

How is Finau's game on the rise but Spieth's doesn't qualify for that criteria?

 

Here is Finau and Spieth's Total Strokes gained by round via datagolf. Below the blue line is when they have performed worse than Tour average and above the blue line is when they have performed better than tour average. The white line is a 50 round moving average of their Total Strokes Gained.

Finau

 

Spieth

 

I sure would like to see some data that shows how Finau's game is on the rise but Spieth's isn't.

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Finau has two victories in this last season. Spieth has none. Two or more victories should almost be a lock IMO. 

  On 8/30/2023 at 8:57 PM, Big C said:

JT was a borderline call based on current form, but far more defensible when you look at the totality of his team-play resume. Not many Americans have a record as impressive as JT's. Would you rather throw in a first timer like Glover or Young into a pressure packed match on European soil? Or a guy with the track record below?

 

He's 16-5-3 in Presidents Cups and Ryder Cups combined, and 6-2-1 in just Ryder Cups. Thomas is on a path to be the best team match-play golfer in U.S. history, and this is the single most salient, repeatable, and critical fact in this entire debate.

 

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Yes JT has performed well in the Ryder cups previously. He also was playing in the regular tour events at a very high level. Not so this last season. I believe you are putting a lot of pressure on a golfer who is currently in the lost and found department. 

[colin007]

Let's go Euros!!

[klineka]

  On 8/31/2023 at 3:43 PM, snow bird said:

Finau has two victories in this last season. Spieth has none. Two or more victories should almost be a lock IMO. 

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Neither Xander or Cantlay have wins this season, based on your logic Finau should be on the team over both of them. See how silly that sounds?

When evaluating/comparing golfers there's more to it than just if they won or not. 

I'm still waiting for you to provide facts that show how Finau's game is currently on the rise while Spieth's is not. You made that claim, now back it up.

[jmanbooyaa]

  On 8/31/2023 at 6:28 PM, klineka said:

Neither Xander or Cantlay have wins this season, based on your logic Finau should be on the team over both of them. See how silly that sounds?

When evaluating/comparing golfers there's more to it than just if they won or not. 

I'm still waiting for you to provide facts that show how Finau's game is currently on the rise while Spieth's is not. You made that claim, now back it up.

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But they qualified on points so the point is moot isn’t it? I don’t think Finau showed enough to make the team. Spieth was consistent.