Plumb Bobbing (Putting) Master Thread

[Alx]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

Buddy, I don't think you're right, and chill with that type of language. There's no need for it.

You like being blunt. Shouldnt come as a surprise when others are aswell in response . I realize tone is difficult to read from post but my response was a harsh but humorous take on being misrepresented.

9 hours ago, Alx said:

Boom.

Didint this give it away 

Either way you seem to misunderstand what Im saying. As a disclaimer I dont plumb bob for my putts and Ive never seen anyone do it. I was merely pointing out how you could use plumb bobbing "in theory". And theoretically this would be how it would actually work. 

But again this was just a theory for the sake of discussion. No need to get up in arms about it and start calling people idiots 

8 hours ago, iacas said:

That's why smart people use a level…

 

8 hours ago, billchao said:

So you know a putt breaks right to left. But by how much?

Well since the shaft moves towards the apex of the putt you could use the visual of how far away from the middle of the hole the shaft is as a reference for how far right or left you have to hit it.

 

8 hours ago, billchao said:

Just tried this, too. I don't start seeing things tilted until my head is somewhere close to 60°. Must be the brain rectifying the image in my head. No way I can tell if something is sloped 1° from right to left like that

Yea. Thats one of the reasons why I never said it would be viable in the real world. For it to work you would have to make a few more assumptions than I made in the first post. But it was just a theoretical take 

[boogielicious]

My biggest problem with plumb bobbing is I couldn't guarantee the shaft was hanging vertical, so it could give me a false reference. As an engineer, that really concerns me.

But I know absolutely where uphill is using my feet. It is so simple and removes any chance of a false reference.

[chilepepper]

I played with it years ago, probably because others did it. For myself plumb bobbing is useless. If I could hold the shaft perfectly level, that may give me some indication of slope. 

[Patch]

I was at my local short game practice area yesterday. Thinking of this thread, I spent sometime revisiting this subject using known breaks. 

I am am right handed, but left eye dominant. Holding the putter in my left hand, I could see no advantantage to figuring out breaks. It did help to to see a line for my putt, once I had a spot to putt to.

So, with that, I have to still say either it doesn't work, or I am doing something wrong. 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Alx said:

You like being blunt.

Not really. I just am. I don't like it; it's caused a lot of problems from people who can't take it.

3 hours ago, Alx said:

Shouldnt come as a surprise when others are aswell in response . I realize tone is difficult to read from post but my response was a harsh but humorous take on being misrepresented.

Smileys help (I'm sure you reached that conclusion yourself given the number in the post I'm quoting partially; your initial post had none), and you'll note that aside from pointing it out and asking that you chill, I did nothing else to you.

3 hours ago, Alx said:

I was merely pointing out how you could use plumb bobbing "in theory". And theoretically this would be how it would actually work.

That's not how plumb bobbing is said to work, though, and I disagree that's how it could work "in theory" because, again, if you know how much to turn your head… you don't need to plumb bob at all because you already know the slope of the green.

3 hours ago, Alx said:

No need to get up in arms about it and start calling people idiots 

? You're still the only one to have done that.

3 hours ago, Alx said:

Well since the shaft moves towards the apex of the putt you could use the visual of how far away from the middle of the hole the shaft is as a reference for how far right or left you have to hit it.

Not really true. Putts on the same slope break different amounts if they're at different speeds.

3 hours ago, Alx said:

Yea. Thats one of the reasons why I never said it would be viable in the real world. For it to work you would have to make a few more assumptions than I made in the first post. But it was just a theoretical take 

The theory doesn't work either, though. And I'm not afraid of theoreticals.

I'll go back to what I've always said: plumb bobbing is dumb and doesn't work at all. The only thing it can offer is to provide a reference for vertical.

[David in FL]

If anyone wants a litmus test, as you're watching the US Open today, take note of how many top players use it.

spoiler....  it's zero.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, David in FL said:

spoiler....  it's zero.

Rickie held his putter up yesterday when he made that 50-footer from just off the green.

He probably just wanted the vertical reference, and he only held it up for a second or two. Heck, he may have just been checking to see if the flagstick was vertical.

But he definitely held his putter up like a plumb bobber. From roughly the mid-point of his putt.

[David in FL]

Just now, iacas said:

Rickie held his putter up yesterday when he made that 50-footer from just off the green.

He probably just wanted the vertical reference, and he only held it up for a second or two. Heck, he may have just been checking to see if the flagstick was vertical.

But he definitely held his putter up like a plumb bobber. From roughly the mid-point of his putt.

Yeah, I actually saw that.  But neither he nor anyone else does it regularly any more.

You used to see it back in the day, but back in the day, we used to think that the initial ball direction was predominantly driven by the swing path too...  

[Alx]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

? You're still the only one to have done that.

Nope. Dont misrepresent what was said. I was merely referring to you refusing an explanation with elementary physics(perspective etc.) as simply "untrue" when the mechanics explained are simple. Afaik being thick is along the lines of purposely not understanding which is what I was assuming you were doing to proove a point.

 

2 hours ago, iacas said:

The theory doesn't work either, though. And I'm not afraid of theoreticals.

I'll go back to what I've always said: plumb bobbing is dumb and doesn't work at all.

The theory works with certain assumptions but as dicussed its not applicable with enough accuracy. But if you believed in it and wanted to use it this is the sort of thing I would expect to hear.

Its definitely a bad way to get a read. I dont think anyone has refuted that so far 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Alx said:

Nope. Dont misrepresent what was said. I was merely referring to you refusing an explanation with elementary physics (perspective etc.) as simply "untrue" when the mechanics explained are simple.

I didn't refuse it with simply "untrue." I posted a fair bit more than that.

3 hours ago, Alx said:

Afaik being thick is along the lines of purposely not understanding which is what I was assuming you were doing to proove a point.

I understood what you were saying. What you said was not true. It didn't make sense in several ways: geometrically, physically, or even how people function - they can't easily align things.

There was no point to prove… plumb bobbing makes almost no sense at all.

3 hours ago, Alx said:

The theory works with certain assumptions but as dicussed its not applicable with enough accuracy. But if you believed in it and wanted to use it this is the sort of thing I would expect to hear.

No, it doesn't really work, for a number of reasons. Even if you can determine the slope at the hole, and you've calibrated for the stimp of that particular green and it happens to match up with the distance you aim on that particular distance of putt… the break at the hole is almost completely irrelevant to the overall break of the putt.

Plumb bobbing can only provide a vertical reference. That's it.

3 hours ago, Alx said:

Its definitely a bad way to get a read. I dont think anyone has refuted that so far 

Yes, so why are you discussing how it could theoretically work?

[zipazoid]

I use it sometimes when I'm just not sure of the break...it kinda works as a 'decision maker' for me, which allows me to commit to a line. Sometimes the line is wrong, but again, I was unsure to begin with. So it at least has the effect of getting me to commit to something.

 

[Moxie Dawn]

Well it's voodoo, and has to do with aligning your chi/chakras with the magnetic poles of the earth. Works best with Mercury in retrograde. I have used my putter successfully to find potable water and natural gas. True story.

[softjones]

It does not tell you which way the break is going. You have to know which way the break is going before you plumb bob.

For a right to left break:

Right arm holding club and right eye closed, bottom of putter lined up on the right side of the ball, then move your gaze up to the hole. The distance between the shaft and the hole is the amount of break.

Do the opposite for left to right break. Left arm holding club, left eye closed, bottom of putter lined on left side of ball.

It takes 2 seconds to do this, and is easy to do while waiting for your turn.

Not sure why all the hate on here, it works.

[iacas]

53 minutes ago, softjones said:

Not sure why all the hate on here, it works.

Because it doesn't.

53 minutes ago, softjones said:

Right arm holding club and right eye closed, bottom of putter lined up on the right side of the ball, then move your gaze up to the hole. The distance between the shaft and the hole is the amount of break.

Do the opposite for left to right break. Left arm holding club, left eye closed, bottom of putter lined on left side of ball.

Okay, before you do all of that… take a step one foot to the right or left.

Oops!

[softjones]

29 minutes ago, iacas said:

Because it doesn't.

Okay, before you do all of that… take a step one foot to the right or left.

Oops!

Well yea you have to be lined up with the hole. Not that hard.

Works really well for me when there's just one break in the putt.

You have to have an understanding of the break first. Then can use it to find an aiming point. Landmarks in the background and marks on the green work great for me.

My handicap is awful and am clearly not an expert..but for simply reading one break putts, if you plumb bob correct, it works.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, softjones said:

My handicap is awful and am clearly not an expert..but for simply reading one break putts, if you plumb bob correct, it works.

It really doesn't. Welcome to the site, and please be open-minded… I'm glad you feel it works for you, because confidence can be helpful, but the geometry here is pretty simple: it doesn't work. At all.

3 minutes ago, softjones said:

Well yea you have to be lined up with the hole. Not that hard.

If you're truly lined up with the ball and the hole… then the shaft will split the ball and the hole. Two points can form a line, and if you're on the line from the ball to the hole, and the shaft is vertical, it will go right down the middle of both of those.

And let's imagine that by trying to use your left eye and your right arm (or whatever it was that you said) that you can create a situation where you're standing on the line from the ball to the hole, but your eye and the putter shaft are OFF that line slightly, creating an angle… that angle would be the same whether the slope between your ball and the hole was 0% (no side tilt) or 10%, but those putts would have VERY different break amounts.

People think plumb bobbing works because, whether they do it subconsciously or not, they stand a little below that line. They aren't standing directly on that line. So then when they hold their putter shaft and put it through the ball, they're aimed toward the high side of the hole.

3 minutes ago, softjones said:

You have to have an understanding of the break first. Then can use it to find an aiming point. Landmarks in the background and marks on the green work great for me.

Right… which defeats the purpose of plumb bobbing. Plumb bobbing is "supposed" to help you READ the putt. If you "need to have an understanding of the break first" then plumb bobbing is completely unnecessary.

If you're talking about using the shaft as a straight edge to find an intermediate target… you don't have to plumb bob for that, either:

 

[DaveP043]

If someone could explain the science behind plumb-bobbing to me, I might start to look more closely at it.  As it stands, I've heard the process described, in several different (and sometimes contradictory) ways, but nobody can tell me how it works, other than providing a (hopefully) vertical reference line.  

[softjones]

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I am open minded and am taking in what you say, I just always thought it worked.

I do use it as a final assessment of the break. A quick bob to confirm what I thought the break was. So I guess it's pointless if you're already reading the green well..but if it matches what I thought the break was, and turns out to be what the break actually is, doesn't it help in giving myself a final target to aim for? Something concrete in my head to help get any doubt out of my stroke.

I'm having trouble letting go of this because it means I look like a dummy out there with my club out in front of me. Hate to look like/ be "that guy"