Relative Importance of Driving/Approach Shots, Short Game, Putting, etc. (LSW, Mark Broadie, Strokes Gained, etc.)

[Lihu]

[quote name="Aflighter" url="/t/14930/relative-importance-of-the-long-game-short-game-etc-mark-broadie-strokes-gained-etc/510#post_1093593"]Sorry Bill,i guess im talking about my case mainly and i guess i make mistake of thinking most are in my position.I say short game is so important because id say 90% of the time im atleast near the green less than 15 yards or so away and thats why im saying short game is so important because thats where all my added strokes come from.

That's all well and fine, but you can't just take your point of view and go around telling people that the short game is more important based on that. The stats and analysis prove otherwise. [quote name="Lihu" url="/t/14930/relative-importance-of-the-long-game-short-game-etc-mark-broadie-strokes-gained-etc/510#post_1093612"] Yeah, when you do it with proper mechanics it feels really easy and efficient. Even on well executed shots it still takes time and experience to learn the feel for the distances and gauging distance with short game shots/putts. Anyone who claims to be able to shoot 2 or more strokes lower from the get go is either really talented or exaggerating a bit?[/quote]You'd be surprised. With better technique, you're going to save strokes simply from not blading pitches and chunking them to begin with. The rest is no different than learning distance control with any other short game shot.[/quote] It's funny. My last round,. my swings felt great, but I hit crappy and long with no distance control.

[DrvFrShow]

Mike said it right. Tournament coming up in a week? Work on the short game.

But for me, I'm tired of going U&D; for bogey and DB. That is not due to my short game. That is caused by errant shots in my long game. U&D; for par I can handle. If I'm controlling my long game, most likely I'll have 9 of those a round. That's when my short game really matters.

Learning how to chip and pitch properly last year took a lot of strokes off my game. I was blading and chunking a lot of chips. I went from shooting 110-116 to shooting near 100 pretty quickly. Learning to lag putt took another 4 strokes off. I still mess up around the green but not nearly as often. Any further improvement has to come from my long game.

[billchao]

Is it a fair statement to say that learning better technique with almost any short game shot is easier than learning a proper full swing? Plus, if you blade a chip that will cost you a shot where a blown full swing may cost 2.

Yes. A pitch or chip swing is an simpler motion than a full swing, so it's easier to learn. It's also a shorter distance shot, so you are less likely to hit it into trouble. [quote name="Lihu" url="/t/14930/relative-importance-of-the-long-game-short-game-etc-mark-broadie-strokes-gained-etc/540#post_1093643"] It's funny. My last round,. my swings felt great, but I hit crappy and long with no distance control.[/quote]That is odd. I can't say I've ever had a day pitching where I couldn't control the distance and came away from it thinking the swings felt great.

[Lihu]

[quote name="JonMA1" url="/t/14930/relative-importance-of-the-long-game-short-game-etc-mark-broadie-strokes-gained-etc/510#post_1093632"]Is it a fair statement to say that learning better technique with almost any short game shot is easier than learning a proper full swing? Plus, if you blade a chip that will cost you a shot where a blown full swing may cost 2.

Yes. A pitch or chip swing is an simpler motion than a full swing, so it's easier to learn. It's also a shorter distance shot, so you are less likely to hit it into trouble. [quote name="Lihu" url="/t/14930/relative-importance-of-the-long-game-short-game-etc-mark-broadie-strokes-gained-etc/540#post_1093643"] It's funny. My last round,. my swings felt great, but I hit crappy and long with no distance control.[/quote]That is odd. I can't say I've ever had a day pitching where I couldn't control the distance and came away from it thinking the swings felt great.[/quote] Knew this would come back and bite me. I hit good shots, but have no idea hour far they go. It'll take some time to get used to them.

[billchao]

Knew this would come back and bite me. I hit good shots, but have no idea hour far they go. It'll take some time to get used to them.

Ah, ok, I get what you're saying. Just spend some time practicing and dial those distances in.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Knew this would come back and bite me. I hit good shots, but have no idea hour far they go. It'll take some time to get used to them.

Ah, ok, I get what you're saying. Just spend some time practicing and dial those distances in.

Yup, that's why I haven't posted any any non-practice rounds this last couple weeks. Probably going to need another few weeks to get used to everything: driving, irons, pitching, putting. Changed everything up.

[No Mulligans]

@Lihu What is a practice round?  Hitting multiple balls?

Why wouldn't you post non-practice rounds?  I thought I was suppose to post all rounds.  (I'm just new to handicaps, so I just don't know.  Perhaps I was under the wrong impression).

[Lihu]

@Lihu What is a practice round?  Hitting multiple balls?

Why wouldn't you post non-practice rounds?  I thought I was suppose to post all rounds.  (I'm just new to handicaps, so I just don't know.  Perhaps I was under the wrong impression).

Sorry I veered this off topic, but here is your answer and some threads related to practice rounds.

Declare a practice round before you tee off on the first hole.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/45077/can-you-have-practice-rounds-when-establishing-a-handicap

http://thesandtrap.com/t/68064/hurts-to-be-honest-handicaps-and-practice-rounds

I only score if one ball and one shot is used according to the ROG, but just not applied to my handicap. Once you could hit multiple balls, but then there is no real score, right?

Note that some clubs are also hesitant to letting you play too many practice rounds, but this is more to prevent sand bagging. I'm holding off joining until my new swing/pitching method/putting method have had some time on the course, so I don't look like a complete nitwit vanity cap who played to an 18 HC last week.

[Golfingdad]

They showed a stat today that Patrick Reed was tied for 27th (out of 34) in % of putts made inside of 10' right before he missed from 4' on the 71st hole ... And he won the tournament.

[Aflighter]

They showed a stat today that Patrick Reed was tied for 27th (out of 34) in % of putts made inside of 10' right before he missed from 4' on the 71st hole ... And he won the tournament.

You need to realize though there was only 34 playing so id imagine in a full field 27th would be pretty darn good.Also remember he drained a 15-20 footer to win the tournament also and that Walker not being able to get up and down from near the green on that par 5 cost him tournament.

[Abu3baid]

You need to realize though there was only 34 playing so id imagine in a full field 27th would be pretty darn good.Also remember he drained a 15-20 footer to win the tournament also and that Walker not being able to get up and down from near the green on that par 5 cost him tournament.

Im sure he would have rather been putting for birdi rather than having to go for an up and down.. Don't you agree? In fact I could argue that it was his long game that let him down and not his short game :)

[Golfingdad]

You need to realize though there was only 34 playing so id imagine in a full field 27th would be pretty darn good.Also remember he drained a 15-20 footer to win the tournament also and that Walker not being able to get up and down from near the green on that par 5 cost him tournament.

Or YOU need to realize that perhaps being in the 20th percentile in a small field event translates to 119th out of 150 in a full field event.

Regardless, that is irrelevant.  He beat ALL of the 33 guys he was competing against whilst putting better than only 6 of them from inside of 10 feet.

But in looking at the overall stats, its actually the rest of the top of the field that should be looked at here.  Reed finished only T15 in GIR, however the other 5 guys that finished in the top 6 of the tournament (Walker, Day, Henley, Matsuyama and Bae) all finished in the top 6 in GIR.  That is probably a little bit more "conclusive" as far as anecdotes go than Reed's putting stat.  (Especially considering that Reed finished the tournament 5th in overall putting average)

[Dave2512]

Anyone serious about golf needs to read the book. The numbers don't lie and they have stats for every range of golfer to support it.

[No Mulligans]

They showed a stat today that Patrick Reed was tied for 27th (out of 34) in % of putts made inside of 10' right before he missed from 4' on the 71st hole ... And he won the tournament.

Ha,

I'll see your logical fallacy and raise you with this logical fallacy:

Jason Day putted lights out on the final round and tied the course record.

[Dave2512]

Or maybe he just hit really good approach shots that gave him a bunch of makeable putts.

[Golfingdad]

Ha,

I'll see your logical fallacy and raise you with this logical fallacy:

Jason Day putted lights out on the final round and tied the course record.

It's not a logical fallacy, it's just a statement.  I didn't conclude anything.

And in the next post I make it pretty clear that I recognize that I'm giving anecdotes and I put conclusion in quotes, to further illustrate that I'm not really drawing any.

[No Mulligans]

@Golfingdad Fair enough.  I didn't conclude anything either.  So, neither of us is guilty of a logical fallacy.

[DrvFrShow]

I play weekly with people who have excellent short games, and can putt the lights out. They're 18 - 20 handicappers. Distance? They would love to hit a 180 yd drive.

And then this high school girl gets on my case if I mishit and don't carry the 200 yd marker with my driver. "Come on, Julie!" So I hand it to her and she crushes it with a 225 carry. She's a regular, and we have a match scheduled for the spring. She's going to kick my ass. It'll be fun, though.