RANT - etiquette!

[JessN16]

I do certainly agree that when people get hit into and the person half expects to make the distance or makes it on purpose to 'speed up play' it is certainly the wrong thing to do. From my experience it is generally the minority of times though. Most people when they have hit into a group I have been apart of are as surprised to hit to shot as we were to see it dribble up to our bags. I once hit a pull hook and chipped out three times to the fairway before knocking it 270 yards onto the front edge of the par 5 I was on. The guys on the green were only disappointed because the putt I holed was a good up and down for a par and not an eagle! Obviously I never expected to hit the shot and they knew it. I guess that is the most important bit.

I've been accidentally hit into and I've accidentally done it myself (last week, in fact). The difference is definitely the intent. For anyone to do it as "motivation," though, is the invitation to whip a behind.

Jess

[mgoofy24]

I played a course last weekend. I had to play behind two retired ladies (I was playing by myself). I waited for them on every hole, until the 11th when they decided to have lunch and let me play through (they were 4 holes behind)... Anyways, apart from not letting me play through, they completely disrespected the course! If one of them would hit a bad shot, she would slam her club into the ground and then throw the club at her cart or down the fairway. I saw her throw clubs on at least 10 different occasions...

I sometimes think that a golf etiquette test should be required before a person is allowed to go out onto a course. I mean, I had to take a golf rules/etiquette test to play Junior golf, why should older people have leave to be so disrespectful of the course!?

[Sergio77]

You DO have to take an etiquette test when learning the game in Sweden I believe...

[TigerCurtis333]

Dave S - your response of threatening him, while extreme, WAS THE RIGHT MOVE.

I would guess (keyword guess) that most of the time golf balls, when hitting people, don't do too much damage past a bruise. But there is still a serious risk of a (I used the word too many times) "serious" injury to the face or head, or a certain region that while humorous, could severely hamper a young man for life. You did the right thing if your son was in danger.

Pjsync - you also had a real right to be mad. I mean come on, we've all witnessed accidents on the course. I've never hit into anybody because my view is that the only way I'll hit them is if I hit a picture perfect shot, and I don't want it ruined by some guy who may have to leave the course with an injury. I have been hit into twice, but it was clearly on accident (or so that's what I think. No harm no foul. I think it's just a situation of a guy thinks "No way I'll get a shot like that," but then they get ahold of it and hit it right on the money). Both times, the ball actually sailed a good 10 yards over my head. However, it was just accident. I was angry, but nothing more.

To my point - however, when a guy is motivated to hit into you to make a point - get him out of here. Like I said above, there is a chance for serious injury to the head or yes, the man region (trust me, you get a guy with a 110 mph swing or more and get a Titleist hit there, it COULD do some very serious, and permanent damage). When a guy knows he will hit into you and still does it, get him the F*** outta here..

[pjsnyc]

...Pjsync - you also had a real right to be mad. I mean come on, we've all witnessed accidents on the course. I've never hit into anybody because my view is that the only way I'll hit them is if I hit a picture perfect shot, and I don't want it ruined by some guy who may have to leave the course with an injury. I have been hit into twice, but it was clearly on accident (or so that's what I think. No harm no foul. I think it's just a situation of a guy thinks "No way I'll get a shot like that," but then they get ahold of it and hit it right on the money). Both times, the ball actually sailed a good 10 yards over my head. However, it was just accident. I was angry, but nothing more...

His shot wasn't exactly picture perfect, lol. His tee shot sliced to my right and into the trees but close enough that I could hear it rattle around before it came to rest.

What annoyed me also is that he was suggesting that we were playing too slow and that we should let him play through since he was only a two-some (understandable on the two-some front)...but when I was walking to the next tee (which on this particular stretch of holes you have to backtrack a little bit), I walked by him and he was in the bush looking for his tee shot...STILL!!! Yet he still barked at me citing the rules...ugh... Edit - here's an illustration since I was bored:

[TigerCurtis333]

LMAO! That's good stuff right there.

I was going to respond to your post and the picture was exactly what I had in mind - from that, it looks like if he hits a straight shot, it either hits you or goes directly over you. Bottom line, you were WELL within his range.

[kregan]

This is my first year playing seriously and I have gone out at least 15 times alone and have been paired up most of the time. Last week was the first time I got paired with someone that I thought was rude.

The other 2 guys were friends and rode together in one cart. I got pair in the rude guys cart. On the first tee he starts telling the other 2 guys about how he was "black balled" by the foursome he normally plays with, he was joking a little so we didn't think much of it.

So he tee's off and then walk away and sit in the cart while myself and the other 2 guys tee off. Then up on the 1st green he started to put before the other 2 had hit up to the green. I wait decide to wait for the other 2 guys and turn around to see him sitting in the cart. Mind you, we have another 4 some in front of use so it is not like we are going anywhere fast.

On the 4th hole he actually drove away to the next tee box (with my clubs) after putting out of turn. After 2 more holes of this I looked at the other 2 guys and said " maybe that is why he was blackballed" they busted out laughing and told me they were just saying the same thing.

I just thought the while thing was rude.

[graham57]

In Germany, you do have to sit both a rules and etiquette test (written) and a practical test before you can officially play on a golf course. While it took some getting used to (coming from Scotland, where just about everybody plays golf with practically no formal preconditions), it does mean that everyone has at least been given the opportunity to understand what respectful play means.

With regard to hitting into people: both my son and I are 6'6" and can (on occasion) hit the ball a long way. Twice when playing together one or both of us have hit long drives well over the heads of the group in front of us (in one case, they had actually played their second shots), around 330 yards. We felt really bad and now wait until the group in front are well out of range before teeing off. The problem is, you look like a real poser if you wait that long and then hit a mediocre shot. If we don't want the pressure of that situation, we will now tee off with a 4 or 5 iron and accept that's it's going to be more than a short iron into the green.

[ScouseJohnny]

Quote:

when a guy is motivated to hit into you to make a point

I'd like to think it's simply unbelievable that anyone would deliberately hit into the match in front of them, in order "to make a point." But, sadly, it happens.

Off topic, I know, but the only thing I can equate this too is a recent experience of mine, whereupon an idiot accelerated past me and cut right in front of me on the I-64 and then severely "brake checked" me at 75mph, in order to "teach me a lesson" (I guess) for not helping him merge at the previous intersection. I admit I made a mistake, I couldn't get over approaching the intersection and I should have slowed to let him in front, perhaps, but still....A needless and deliberate action that could cause a high speed, likely fatal wreck, just to make a point? Idiots are everywhere.

Likewise, one shouldn't assume that being hit with a golf ball is only going to cause a minor bruise (not that such an outcome would be acceptable).

I've only ever hit into the match in front, once - accidentally - (aged 15, misjudged my own abilities, hit a great 4 iron from the fairway that landed on the green). A member of the foursome on the green at the time picked it up and threw it in the lake, and then waited until I got to the green to see if I wanted to say anything to him. What I did say was, "Sorry."

Accidents happen (they shouldn't. but they do). But deliberately hitting a golf ball at someone? If a private club, one would hope that person's membership would be terminated. If a public course, one would hope for a lifetime ban from the premises....

[mcanadiens]

Accidents do happen.

I was mortified when I nearly plunked a fellow with a 235-yard 3W. That may be a pretty standard distance for most of you guys, but that was a 1% shot for me. Especially the way that round went, I never guessed it would go anywhere near that. The ball was in the air and looked great, then I saw him come out from behind a bunker and I nearly crapped myself. He putted out and was gone by the time I got to the green.

But, sometimes it's on purpose.

There was one instance where I saw someone fire a warning shot. This was a low capper. Pace of play was brutal on this day and I joined his threesome. He blamed a pair of clueless fellows in front of the group and he figured he could blow a drive over their heads to send the message. As it was, he actually sliced it and the targets never knew anything about it. He walked back to the cart and cooled his heels a little bit. He seemed embarrassed about it, but didn't say anything. The rest of the round he was a lot more patient.

[rkim291968]

I am resigned to the fact that 1 out of so many golfers are a**holes.   It's just like everything else in the world.   Most abide by rules and common sense.  The other 5%?  Not so much.

My rant?   I don't see Tiger hit his approach shot when the front group is still near green, getting ready to leave.   It's amazing how many weekend golfers are so sure of their approach shot from 150 yards out that they opt to hit their shot while people are still in and around the green.  Of course, many of them miss and end up yelling fore.

[WUTiger]

Basic rule in most places: Threesomes and foursomes sent off the tee together by the starter have "standing" on the course. Singles and twosomes do not have "standing."

Pushy twosomes cause a lot of unpleasantness on golf courses.

That's when I get the urge to walk up to Mr. Pushie's ball and knock it out of bound.

[Big C]

Basic rule in most places: Threesomes and foursomes sent off the tee together by the starter have "standing" on the course. Singles and twosomes do not have "standing."

I have heard this rule before, but it seems like antiquated thinking to me. If there is a two-some or a single playing behind my group - and if there is space in front of us - I am going to let the smaller group play through every time. I would hope most members on this site would do the same. Why wouldn't you? It seems like common courtesy.

Now if the course is packed and there is nowhere to go, then I'm not letting anybody play through. But that's another matter altogether.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by graham57

In Germany, you do have to sit both a rules and etiquette test (written) and a practical test before you can officially play on a golf course. While it took some getting used to (coming from Scotland, where just about everybody plays golf with practically no formal preconditions), it does mean that everyone has at least been given the opportunity to understand what respectful play means.

With regard to hitting into people: both my son and I are 6'6" and can (on occasion) hit the ball a long way. Twice when playing together one or both of us have hit long drives well over the heads of the group in front of us (in one case, they had actually played their second shots), around 330 yards. We felt really bad and now wait until the group in front are well out of range before teeing off. The problem is, you look like a real poser if you wait that long and then hit a mediocre shot. If we don't want the pressure of that situation, we will now tee off with a 4 or 5 iron and accept that's it's going to be more than a short iron into the green.

It's probably reasonable to wait until they are out 300 yards before making your tee shots. I wouldn't worry too much about looking like a "poser" either. If they are out 250 yards and you can occasionally knock on 330, I would wait until they have hit their second shot and cleared the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScouseJohnny

Quote:

when a guy is motivated to hit into you to make a point

I'd like to think it's simply unbelievable that anyone would deliberately hit into the match in front of them , in order "to make a point." But, sadly, it happens.

Off topic, I know, but the only thing I can equate this too is a recent experience of mine, whereupon an idiot accelerated past me and cut right in front of me on the I-64 and then severely "brake checked" me at 75mph, in order to "teach me a lesson" (I guess) for not helping him merge at the previous intersection. I admit I made a mistake, I couldn't get over approaching the intersection and I should have slowed to let him in front, perhaps, but still....A needless and deliberate action that could cause a high speed, likely fatal wreck, just to make a point? Idiots are everywhere.

Likewise, one shouldn't assume that being hit with a golf ball is only going to cause a minor bruise (not that such an outcome would be acceptable).

I've only ever hit into the match in front, once - accidentally - (aged 15, misjudged my own abilities, hit a great 4 iron from the fairway that landed on the green). A member of the foursome on the green at the time picked it up and threw it in the lake, and then waited until I got to the green to see if I wanted to say anything to him. What I did say was, "Sorry."

Accidents happen (they shouldn't. but they do). But deliberately hitting a golf ball at someone? If a private club, one would hope that person's membership would be terminated. If a public course, one would hope for a lifetime ban from the premises....

It's a running joke with me and my partners to "send a message", but in all seriousness no one really does this on purpose and it seems reasonable to simply wait until the party in front has already hit their second shot before teeing off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

I am resigned to the fact that 1 out of so many golfers are a**holes.   It's just like everything else in the world.   Most abide by rules and common sense.  The other 5%?  Not so much.

My rant?   I don't see Tiger hit his approach shot when the front group is still near green, getting ready to leave.   It's amazing how many weekend golfers are so sure of their approach shot from 150 yards out that they opt to hit their shot while people are still in and around the green. Of course, many of them miss and end up yelling fore.

Isn't it better if they miss the green while people are on it?

[Fourputt]

Basic rule in most places: Threesomes and foursomes sent off the tee together by the starter have "standing" on the course. Singles and twosomes do not have "standing."

Pushy twosomes cause a lot of unpleasantness on golf courses.

That's when I get the urge to walk up to Mr. Pushie's ball and knock it out of bound.

A lot more unpleasantness is caused by foursomes who mistakenly believe that they have the right to be a log jam on the course.  Talk about an archaic policy.  That is contrary both to common sense and to the Etiquette section in the Rules of Golf.  From the Etiquette chapter:

Pace Of Play

Play At Good Pace And Keep Up

Players should play at a good pace. The Committee may establish pace of play guidelines that all players should follow.

It is a group’s responsibility to keep up with the group in front. If it loses a clear hole and it is delaying the group behind, it should invite the group behind to play through, irrespective of the number of players in that group. Where a group has not lost a clear hole, but it is apparent that the group behind can play faster, it should invite the faster moving group to play through.

Priority On The Course

Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group’s pace of play. Any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term “group” includes a single player.

By the way, I've NEVER played a course with such a questionable policy.

[iacas]

Basic rule in most places: Threesomes and foursomes sent off the tee together by the starter have "standing" on the course. Singles and twosomes do not have "standing."

That is no longer in the Rules of Golf (it used to be under the etiquette section).

That section now reads (emphasis mine, from here http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Etiquette/):

Priority On The Course

Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group’s pace of play. Any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term “group” includes a single player.

Time to update your thinking.

Edit: Oops. That's what I get for stepping away and then submitting my response when I got back. In the meantime @Fourputt already replied.

[turtleback]

Basic rule in most places: Threesomes and foursomes sent off the tee together by the starter have "standing" on the course. Singles and twosomes do not have "standing."

Pushy twosomes cause a lot of unpleasantness on golf courses.

That's when I get the urge to walk up to Mr. Pushie's ball and knock it out of bound.

Basic rule:  know what the rules are before proclaiming what the basic rule is.

The change was made in 2004 and then they had to clarify it in 2012 to specify that a single player was a group, probably because of dinosaurs trying to enforce the old 20th century rule.  As some still do.

I still do NOT see the logic of giving someone priority because they are playing 18 (slowly) over a guy playing 9 (quickly).  But then again, I also do not recall a single instance where this ever actually came up as an issue.

[RickK]

Two quick stories...

* Playing No. 10 at Vanity Fair Golf & Tennis Club in Monroeville, Ala.: Hole is a par-5 that is virtually unreachable by anyone with a brain, because they'll never go for it. To go for it, you either need to hit 350 off the tee so you can get around the trees at the dogleg, or you need to hit into what used to be the No. 8 fairway, then launch one over the trees from about 200 out and try to stop it on a two-tiered green that slopes away from you down to a ravine. In fact, it's such a bad idea that the club finally let that area grow up and staked it as OOB.

Well, we're on the green putting and all of a sudden, a ball comes crashing onto the green, one-hops under one of my friends, nearly giving him a cheap vascectomy in the process, before screaming off the back of the green. My friend is dancing like his pants were on fire and we all stared back at where the ball came from. No "fore," no nothing. The guy who hit the shot is grinning like a mule eating briars and his friend calls down, "He's sorry about that." So we finish the hole and go onto No. 11, and wait.

About five minutes later, those guys get there and before we ask them if they're intending to play through, the guy who hit the shot goes to the tee box. His buddy is apologizing profusely and thanking us for letting them go ahead. Dude who hit the ball never said a word. Unless he was mute, he needed a beating. We were just too shocked to administer it.

* Playing at Frank House Memorial in Birmingham: We teed off on a Saturday and Frank House is overplayed, badly. Rounds take 5 hours all the time. First hole, we're in the fairway waiting to hit to the green, and we hear a ball hit the fairway behind us. Turn around, ball comes rolling to within 10 yards of our carts. I'm playing with the same guys I was in the first story.

Second hole, we're in the fairway and the same thing happens. About two holes later, the final straw: We're waiting in the fairway, and just about the time I walk away from our golf cart, they hit our golf cart on one hop. I went over and picked the ball up and stuck it in my bag and made sure they saw me do it.

Predictably, they met us on the green. There were four of them and four of us. Guy asked me what I was doing and I told him, "keeping your ball. Don't hit into us." He then proceeds to tell us that we'll either let him play through or we can expect to be hit into all day.

I didn't know it, but one of the other guys in our group had already taken off -- he'd seen a course marshal. The marshal came over and took the guys completely off the course. When we made the turn, we saw them back on the course, but looking like they had a nice case of the redass. Stupid people!

Jess

I see you are from the part of the world where I came from.  Here is my story...

Playing at Roebuck Golf Course in Birmingham: My B-I-L and I are a twosome and they send out 2 singles with us.  One guy seems to be a "golfer", the other guy...well let's just call him "tennis shoe" cause he is playing in tennis shoes.  It is a fairly slow day and the group behind us would sometimes be waiting behind us on the tee box for us to tee of.  Knew there was a lot of beer consumption in their group but no issues until hole 13...par 5.  I am just short of the green about to chip on when a ball comes screaming in one hops and hits me on the ankle.  No one yells fore, no nothing.  I turn around and sort of hold my hands up like "what is going on".  Well, here come "tennis shoe" over and takes an iron and fires the ball back up the fairway towards these guys.  Next thing I know, here they come roaring down the fairway in carts and yelling at me.  I looked at the guy and said "Hey, you hit me without yelling fore.  I didn't hit your ball back, someone else in the group did..was not me." and I walked over to the cart and left.  Well, that started it.  For the next 4 holes, we had balls coming in on us, them yelling at screaming.  It all culminated at 17 green, 18 tee box...right next to each other.  The guy who is causing most of the grief in their group missed the green to the left...just a few steps away from the cart path separating the green and the tee box.  I am in the process of hitting my tee shot when he yells about as loudly as he could in my swing.  I pull up and barely graze the ball off the toe of the club.  It bounces on the cart path and lands right next to him.  He chips the ball back towards the tee box making some smarta$$ remark.  The ball hits the edge of the tee box and bounces in the air.  I swung at it and somehow hit it solidly.  It zings right by his ear just barely missing him.  I am so mad I am shaking. The guy is stunned...to say the least.  My B-I-L walks over to him, looks him dead in the eye, and said "you need to stop this crap.  He almost killed you.  He will kill you.  You are screwing with someone who has been shot, stabbed, and snake bit twice and he is still alive.  He WILL kill you!".

I managed to hit another ball and we finished the round and went in the snack bar to eat.  Never saw them again.  And, "tennis shoe", I chewed his butt out big time for starting the whole thing.