The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[Zeph]

It depends what your automatic swing is like today. Some need more hip thrust, some need less, some need slower hips, some faster, some faster hands etc. For me, my hips were (still is a little bit) too fast for the rest of the body. So I had to work on shortening the swing and swinging the hands faster to let them catch up with the rest of the body. So, there are no rules on what you have to work on. Only pushing the hips works for some, not everyone. Which is why you really have to look at the individual swing when talking about details like that.

[fanofsaosin]

Agree with the above post... When I see someone trying to do stack and tilt I have them put all there weight forward.... Take a half swing and have them hit the ball and extend

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

On the backswing I focus on just making a nice centered turn and then on the the downswing I ONLY PUSH MY HIPS FOWARD - no other downswing thoughts at all.

I've been doing the same thing for the past week or two.  I have no idea why it helps.

[Th3R00st3r]

Originally Posted by dsc123

I've been doing the same thing for the past week or two.  I have no idea why it helps.

It's all in the hips..it's all in the hips. Seems Chubb's was right!

[outlaw1984]

i went out yesterday trying to do some things that i feel i wasnt doing with S&T....although; i had some great shot especially with my 3W, and Hybrid's....i still had a push to right and not a draw....can someone tell me am i missing the final step or soemthign

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

But do you consciously swing your arms or just push your hips and trust that it will trigger your hips-shoulders-arms to unwind?

It's more likely that you were overusing your arms, under-pushing your hips, so getting them in the right ballpark feels like you aren't using them at all.  You do need a little of the karate chop kind of motion on the downswing, but it's not nearly as extreme as what most high-handicappers are doing.  It's pretty subtle, really and mostly there to maintain the structure of the arm/shoulder package.  I'd say keep up the good work with the hips, because it's nearly impossible for most golfers to overdo that portion.  You'll know when you underdid it though because with under-used arms and too much hip rotation the club will flip on the follow-through.  A little arm action can help to cheat your way through this particular flip because it helps get the handle down quicker.  That's what I call "fake lag".  But you never want too much arm action and would rather build a swing on a sound pivot.  So keep working with the hips and forgetting about the arms for the moment until you have the pivot down.  Sounds like you are on a good path.

FWIW, Here's what the extremely rare "too much lag" swing looks like.  Notice the arm action:

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

It's more likely that you were overusing your arms, under-pushing your hips, so getting them in the right ballpark feels like you aren't using them at all.  You do need a little of the karate chop kind of motion on the downswing, but it's not nearly as extreme as what most high-handicappers are doing.  It's pretty subtle, really and mostly there to maintain the structure of the arm/shoulder package.  I'd say keep up the good work with the hips, because it's nearly impossible for most golfers to overdo that portion.  You'll know when you underdid it though because with under-used arms and too much hip rotation the club will flip on the follow-through.  A little arm action can help to cheat your way through this particular flip because it helps get the handle down quicker.  That's what I call "fake lag".  But you never want too much arm action and would rather build a swing on a sound pivot.  So keep working with the hips and forgetting about the arms for the moment until you have the pivot down.  Sounds like you are on a good path.

FWIW, Here's what the extremely rare "too much lag" swing looks like.  Notice the arm action:

Thanks for the reply. I'm really excited about this "revelation" and hope I can keep building on it.

[elementz]

Have only made it through a small portion of the book so far...finished reading at the end of chapter 2.  I went to the range for the first time since last October hoping to try out some of the basic principles but at the same time, I didn't want to strain myself too much since it's been a few months so this resulted in only getting a medium sized bucket (~50 balls).  I didn't perform the the 6 fundamental steps with 10 balls each but rather just focused on hitting a few different clubs and regaining my feel.  I did keep my front foot's weight forward with each shot but never really focused on the other steps.

My irons were decent, was hitting my 7-9 really well, still struggled with 5-6.  Wedges were fine....I wasn't getting any draw on either club but they were going dead straight for the most part....however, when I had about 10 balls left in the bucket, I pulled out the driver which I usually hit with a massive slice...1st shot..slice....2nd shot, cranked it out to about 250 with a very slight fade (~ 5 yards maybe)...and proceeded to hit my final 10 shots almost identical.  Ball was projected pretty high and was just launched off of my club.  I really tried to focus on "tucking my butt" and it seemed like that gave me a good sense of power to hit the ball....I was floored and so was my buddy.  Usually the driver is never even put into the bag when I hit the course but I was hitting it very well.

That was last Saturday and since then I have been away so haven't had a chance to hit the range.  Hoping to go back out this weekend and see if I can fully apply the 6 steps, 10 shot drill with a mid iron and see what I can do.

Now I just wish the courses would hurry up and open.  :)

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by dsc123

I've been doing the same thing for the past week or two.  I have no idea why it helps.

Im gonna try this today.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by dsc123

I've been doing the same thing for the past week or two.  I have no idea why it helps.

Originally Posted by RonTheSavage

Im gonna try this today.

Hit a bucket like this yesterday. Contact was great but 90% were pushes with no draw, the other 10% were drawing. Gonna see if a grip tweak will make a difference as a bandaid, but I think I just need to be a little looser, I tend to tense up a bit.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Hit a bucket like this yesterday. Contact was great but 90% were pushes with no draw, the other 10% were drawing. Gonna see if a grip tweak will make a difference as a bandaid, but I think I just need to be a little looser, I tend to tense up a bit.

More left wrist flexion at address to close the face a little? e.g. a slight forward press before taking the club back.

[Maverick]

The S&T; method has been the first time where I could actually control the height of my irons and vary them by ball placement.  I would say this has to be because I am truly bottoming out after contact and after the ball.  I've also noticed that even setting up more open than normal works better.  Now I just need to bring the same results on the course dammit.

[bobsuruncle]

Just my thoughts - there's no "perfect" swing since we all have different body shapes, sizes, range of motions, etc.  I believe we should just find something that works for us, that we can consistently repeat and stick with it.  Perfect example is Jim Furyk.  Would he be a Major champion, FedEx Cup champ, etc with anything (classic, S&T;, Foley, Butch, Haney, etc) other than his own unique (loop-the-loop) swing?  I doubt it.  He'd have just buried his career before it even started, and be selling 2nd hand cars for a living today.

[carpediem4300]

i liked S&T; to begin with, but found i could only take ti so far,....reverted back to conventional (whatever that truly is) and shoot much lower now,....ive taken across alot of things from S&T; that have improved my game greatly though, such as staying centred, pushing the weight forward into impact are possibly the two biggest things i carried over,......

but as a whole package it didnt help me much and really hurt my back (i presume i was doing it wrong at some point)

I went from no divots to big divots after the ball which was nice,....but ive retained that with my new swing,..

so many things to thank S&T; for,......it was a good starting point for my game

[elementz]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

i liked S&T; to begin with, but found i could only take ti so far,....reverted back to conventional (whatever that truly is) and shoot much lower now,....ive taken across alot of things from S&T; that have improved my game greatly though, such as staying centred, pushing the weight forward into impact are possibly the two biggest things i carried over,......

but as a whole package it didnt help me much and really hurt my back (i presume i was doing it wrong at some point)

I went from no divots to big divots after the ball which was nice,....but ive retained that with my new swing,..

so many things to thank S&T; for,......it was a good starting point for my game

Your last line is a good point....although I am a high handicapper and have only started exploring the world of S&T;, my understanding is that each individual varies and even if you can only find one piece that works for you and betters your game, that's a benefit.  I would advise to anyone taking on this method that if you can't get each principle down pat, go with what your comfortable with.  I really like the design of working piece by piece.

[dak4n6]

I invented the S&T;! I mean this only half in jest. I actually stumbled on the major aspects of S&T; through my own bumblings over many years. Let me explain..

25 yrs ago I started this weird game with a pretty natural swing. I kept my right elbow stuck to my ribs during takeaway and hit a consistent fade that would sometimes turn into a bannana slice (from standing up/pulling off). Played this way pretty casually and contentedly for maybe 10 yrs (once a month kind of golfer).  Then, I started getting more serious, and made the BIG mistake of soliciting swing advice from the likes of Golf Digest.  All kinds of garbage was going into my head, one piece of which was that you should move your weight back onto you right leg during the backswing, and then shift back forward to hit. Ack.

I spent the next 5 yrs thinning, fatting, pushing, and pulling. I couldn't figure it out. Why was I getting worse when I was getting all this great professional advice??  Then, I clearly remember one day out at a local course. I had spent the first 6 holes or so hitting almost literally EVERY shot fat. I was getting really despondent, and had just chunked an 80 yd sand wedge. Then, in a fit of desperation, I figured if I am always hitting 1 or 2 inches behind the ball, I'm just goint to FORCE myself to set up 1 or 2 inches ahead of my normal position (I mean with the ball in its regular position in my stance, but with my CG and head shifted forward). I dropped another ball, and pured my wedge. I played the rest of that round close to par in a dream state. What an epiphany! It felt really strange with more weight on my front leg, but I couldn't argue with the results. I went home and cancelled my Golf Digest subscription.

For the next couple years I had to reinforce this concept, as I kept drifting back to my old swing, and it took me that long to really become convinced that this was the way for me. Then, one day I'm watching GC and I see a commerial for a revolutionary new swing approach and these guys are calling it 'Stack and Tilt', and I see some vids of this new swing, and I was like, 'Hey, I invented that!'. Actually, it was good validation for me that I wasn't some weird golf abberation.  Since then, I have incorporated a 'Still Head' into my weight forward technique, and I'm humming along nicely. I can crush drives and shape shots, and most of all I love the feel of a pured 3 iron blade.

Long live the S&T;!

[Th3R00st3r]

Congrats! Should have slapped a sticker on it, put it in a box, and sold it. too late now.

[WUTiger]

My TPI swing and fitness analysis last summer included a diagnostic lesson from a PGA pro (pro A for this post). Pro A uses Stack & Tilt himself, and teaches it to a majority of his students.

I have the Golf Digest Six Steps to Stack & Tilt from 2010. On video my swing looks similar to Stack & Tilt, except I need work on Step 3 : Hands In , and Step 6 : Butt Forward. I like the efficiency of the "weight forward" setup.

I was pretty sure I wanted to commit to Stack & Tilt, until...

I met Pro B at a January Golf Expo. He gave me a complementary lesson in February, and was able to point out two subtle swing flaws that were hurting my consistency. He seems to be pretty savvy in comparing swing systems. He's aware of the basics of Stack & Tilt, but fears it would lead to "reverse pivot" problems for many golfers.

So, how much danger is there of "reverse pivot" creeping into a Stack & Tilt swing? If RP is a potential problem, what should an S&T; player do to prevent it?

I'll likely go with S&T; if I can resolve this RP issue.