The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[anthony]

segagolf, you're some type of moron. Stack and tilt took my game from shooting in the 100's to my last 4 rounds being under 85. If you read anything about the swing, you would know that it's built around what the best players in the game already do. It's not built around some bullshit teachers "think" they do.

Citing different pros on tour who are or aren't official "Stack & Tilt" guys is worthless on this forum. It's about helping regular average golfers play the game better. Pros play on a completely different level; period. It's like comparing Formula 1 to Go-Karts, it's worthless to compare. There are plenty of success stories on this forum alone of people who changed their swings for the better using S&T; methods.

As far as swinging like a "sissy", I'm hitting a pitching wedge into holes I used to hit my 7 or 8 iron into and my playing partners regularly refer to my tee shots as "cheating". I think most people find they gain distance, and most importantly accuracy with this swing.

[MrSandman]

Stack and tilt is not really a fad. It has been around for a half decade now. It is good for some amatuers looking for a simply, consistent way to assure their weight gets to the left side of their body.

[trackster]

I tired to watch a video about stack and tilt to get a bit more information about it.  The first words on the video were "Revolutionary swing contradicting 90% of what is taught in golf instruction today."

1.  That statement itself makes it look like a fad

2.  That statement is likely exaggerated and not true

I think it was just marketed like that for a while to get some decent exposure.  Anyways something that bothers me is when people say "(Insert pro golfer)'s swing has many components of stack and tilt"  When in reality it should say "stack and tilt has components of (insert pro golfer)'s swing.  There is a difference.  It wasn't like the pro watched a stack and tilt video and said "Wow I like that one part of that swing, I am going to incorporate that."

Also can we agree that there is no absolutely correct way to swing a golf club.  Just because someone uses stack and tilt doesn't mean we need to bash them.  Likewise if some one doesn't use stack and tilt, they don't need to be bashed.

[Zeph]

The problem is that people are discussing semantics. Who cares if you say "player X got Y S&T; components" rather than "S&T; got Y components of player X"? Marketing makes a big impact. In retrospect, they could probably have done things differently, but again, it doesn't matter. What matters is the swing and how you improve as a golfer. Too many gets caught up with "5%", "90%", "left tilt", "hip slide" etc. There would be less confrontation if people actually understood what S&T; is.

[KevCarter]

I think Mike and Andy brought golf swing instruction into the 21st century clearing up many mis-conceptions. EVERY teacher is now using much of their terminology and ideas whether they are doing so consciously or not. IMO the instruction on the new DVD set is relevant to any method / system.

Kevin

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by segagolf

Yeah, just keep on swinging like a sissy...and continue on with your backwards move...

I think I've figured out why trolls try to get a rise out of everyone...

... it's because the Viagra and/or Cialis doesn't get a rise anymore.

[Mr. Desmond]

It would be great to get this thread back on track.

For a golfer who did not see the first S&T; DVDs, the new DVD is enlightening in terms of the extension and flexion during the swing. Of course, there is more ...

[JetFan1983]

I think Mike and Andy brought golf swing instruction into the 21st century clearing up many mis-conceptions. EVERY teacher is now using much of their terminology and ideas whether they are doing so consciously or not. IMO the instruction on the new DVD set is relevant to any method / system. Kevin

Mac o'Grady was really the true mad genius behind all this stuff, but Mike and Andy were the first two guys clever enough to market it and bring it to all of us. It can be difficult getting Mac to look at your swing from what I've heard, so thanks to Mike and Andy for making it readily accessible to others by training a small platoon of young instructors who really understand the pattern. The instruction itself is not all Mac, but a lot of it came from him. [quote name="trackster" url="/t/30537/the-stack-and-tilt-golf-swing/1296#post_733762"]I tired to watch a video about stack and tilt to get a bit more information about it.  The first words on the video were "Revolutionary swing contradicting 90% of what is taught in golf instruction today."  1.  That statement itself makes it look like a fad 2.  That statement is likely exaggerated and not true I think it was just marketed like that for a while to get some decent exposure.  Anyways something that bothers me is when people say "(Insert pro golfer)'s swing has many components of stack and tilt"  When in reality it should say "stack and tilt has components of (insert pro golfer)'s swing.  There is a difference.  It wasn't like the pro watched a stack and tilt video and said "Wow I like that one part of that swing, I am going to incorporate that."  Also can we agree that there is no absolutely correct way to swing a golf club.  Just because someone uses stack and tilt doesn't mean we need to bash them.  Likewise if some one doesn't use stack and tilt, they don't need to be bashed. [/quote] There is an endless stream of factory line gimmicks and scams in this game that it's no wonder why so many people are skeptical when they see stack and tilt for the first time in a fairly typical infomercial type setting. We can certainly debate the marketing choices that were made with S&T.; The instruction itself though really does contradict much of what is still being taught. People certainly learn how to play in different ways, and they should be adjusted to accordingly by the instructor, but in the end, the actual mechanical components in good players' swings are the same. The patterns may be different, but the majority of the pieces involved are the same: weight forward, handle forward, steady head, on plane downswings, jumping for power, etc. These things are the same for everyone good. As I said, they weren't the first two guys to say these things were important, but they did organized them beautifully for all of us strangers, and for that, they'll always be fondly remembered in the world of golf. That said, the book and DVDs leaves out a lot of the information, as many of my flaws were not revealed to me until lessons. There is still much room for educating us all. Well, the ones willing to listen anyway. That's a big reason I love this site. They know what M&A; left out or poorly worded, and they share that information. I can't wait for them to get their day in the sun too. But it's not Mike and Andy's fault that even their biggest fans don't know how to approach detractors in a discussion about S&T.; No one likes to be told theyre wrong, and it takes great skill to be able to debate someone while still preserving their dignity.

[Phil McGleno]

You're damn right. I think Mac came up with all of this on his own, and they probably stole it. Good for golfers and golf instruction, but I haven't seen the two of those geniuses come up with a single thing on their own. I think they spent some time, learned a favorite pattern from Mac, left, made a bunch of money selling it, and haven't done squat since. [quote name="JetFan1983" url="/t/30537/the-stack-and-tilt-golf-swing/1296#post_733844"] Mac o'Grady was really the true mad genius behind all this stuff, but Mike and Andy were the first two guys clever enough to market it and bring it to all of us. It can be difficult getting Mac to look at your swing from what I've heard, so thanks to Mike and Andy for making it readily accessible to others by training a small platoon of young instructors who really understand the pattern. The instruction itself is not all Mac, but a lot of it came from him. [/quote]

[JetFan1983]

Yea I hear you, but I thought I'd reference him positively because his influence was so strong. Sorry if I made it sound like that, but Mac's role in all this can't be overlooked and I felt that it sort of is.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Mac o'Grady was really the true mad genius behind all this stuff, but Mike and Andy were the first two guys clever enough to market it and bring it to all of us. It can be difficult getting Mac to look at your swing from what I've heard, so thanks to Mike and Andy for making it readily accessible to others by training a small platoon of young instructors who really understand the pattern. The instruction itself is not all Mac, but a lot of it came from him.

Yeah all the understanding of how the body works to make a centered golf swing, tilt, turn, extend, release trail knee flexion came from Mac.  Mac has multiple patterns, S&T; is basically model1 CF pattern for high draws.  There is A LOT of information when it comes to Mac's MORAD program.  I wouldn't say that they stole the information, they learned under Mac, paid for their first two schools, brought in students and eventually got kicked out of the program (like everyone else).  The time I've spent with A&M; they've given a lot of credit to Mac.  Mac doesn't want credit he wants to get paid for them using "his information".  He spent a lot of his own money doing his own research.  But I don't see Mac paying heirs of Homer Kelley lol.

The biggest difference between S&T; and Mac's CF pattern is A&M;'s emphasis on when the weight is forward, maintaining the right hand flying wedge, amount of arm depth and the amount of hip slide.

[segagolf]

I disagree. The majority of golf professionals in my area disagree with the concepts of Stack and Tilt, from the simple process of loading on the front foot with a locked trail knee, ludicrous. The move into the ball is pretty universal and natural, but I contest the lazy-stay-in-one-spot process that S&T; claims to be the Golf Machine's objective. False.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by segagolf

The majority of golf professionals in my area disagree with the concepts of Stack and Tilt, from the simple process of loading on the front foot with a locked trail knee, ludicrous.

There's no "loading on the front foot" nor is the trail knee "locked." The only thing which remains ludicrous is your understanding of the topic you're trying to debate.

And lest I remind everyone:

Originally Posted by iacas

This thread is for the discussion of the pattern: parts you find difficult, information about the pieces, the ball flight, the terms they use (most of which are TGM), etc. It's a place where people can get help with the pattern if they've adopted it or get information from others who have adopted it for those who are interested.

You don't qualify, segagolf, so that's enough out of you on this thread.

[GreenFlag]

I know a former college golfer who took lessons from Mac. Apparently this guy is a real piece of work. He threatened this guy if he revealed any of the teachings - as in death. No B.S. I guess this before he oponed his golf schools.

[segagolf]

Excellent...let me talk to someone who knows what they're talking about.

Obviously, you're talking about a different concept, then?

Whatever, Stacker!

[mvmac]

segagolf please don't make 3 separate posts in a row when one will do.

[Goonsidious]

So is this swing for irons only? If so.. there's no need for me to try it. [I'm happy with my iron game]

It does look interesting though.

[Zeph]

So is this swing for irons only? If so.. there's no need for me to try it. [I'm happy with my iron game]

No. The pattern is used for every club in the bag.