Flipping at Impact Master Thread

[nevets88]

I wonder if I'm not being hyperbolic in saying - it's all in the (sliding and tucking) hips?

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by nevets88

I almost wished some of them would say, man, you suck, you need to revamp.

That's the way my teacher was.  I had the chicken wing at one time.  The first session I had with him he said:  "Man, that hurts me just watching it on camera!!  We have got to get that fixed."  That's what I like.  I like for a teacher to be straight. Don't spare my feelings.

Originally Posted by Stretch

For me, it's the feeling of swinging the hands/handle through the hit without thinking of the club head. Still a work in progress, but now at least I can feel the difference between a strike where I have driven the club through impact and one where I have cast it and flipped.

Yeah, that's kind of the same thing I think of.  Oh yeah.  Once you feel the correct impact, the flipping feels horrible, IMO.

[CuppedTin]

Originally Posted by Stretch

For me, it's the feeling of swinging the hands/handle through the hit without thinking of the club head. Still a work in progress, but now at least I can feel the difference between a strike where I have driven the club through impact and one where I have cast it and flipped.

When I really seem to turn my shoulders back fast and smooth and then through fast and smooth, basically 180 degrees then I totally get the feeling of bringing the hands/handle through. But when I do this I have to forget about trying to tighten/hold my rear hinged wrist.

To describe it I actually kinda feel like my arms are wet noodles and I just focus on turning back 90 degrees as fast and smooth as I can and turning through 180 degrees as fast and smooth as I can. I did this on video and even though my arms felt like wet noodles, I actually had the straightest leading arm of my life in the backswing...

[JackLee]

Originally Posted by mchepp

Flipping is a compensation made for your body to hit the ball after being in an improper position. Be it an open club face, club too steep, what have you. Focusing on the flip is a mistake. Find where in your swing you are making errors and fix that.

This might be unpopular here, but I believe holding flying wedges is a tough way to learn to not flip. I know of very few golfers who have done it just by holding a flying wedge. I think the flying wedge is an observation by HK of a position that good players achieve it is not an active drill to prevent flipping.

Improper position is correct.  It is an improper body position.  If the master key instruction is used correctly, you never flip again, and you can make the change in one practice session like I did.  However, I have explained that before, so I guess players just ignore it or disagree with it without trying it.

[CuppedTin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchepp

Flipping is a compensation made for your body to hit the ball after being in an improper position. Be it an open club face, club too steep, what have you. Focusing on the flip is a mistake. Find where in your swing you are making errors and fix that.

This might be unpopular here, but I believe holding flying wedges is a tough way to learn to not flip. I know of very few golfers who have done it just by holding a flying wedge. I think the flying wedge is an observation by HK of a position that good players achieve it is not an active drill to prevent flipping.

Improper position is correct. It is an improper body position. If the master key instruction is used correctly, you never flip again, and you can make the change in one practice session like I did. However, I have explained that before, so I guess players just ignore it or disagree with it without trying it.

JackLee, What Master Key Instruction are you talking about? Is it the hit and stop drill...

[JackLee]

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

JackLee, What Master Key Instruction are you talking about? Is it the hit and stop drill...

Just do a web search for "golf swing master key".  It is so simple, $6.50 for the ebook is probably all you need. If you are strictly a visual learner, the DVD may be helpful.  I have been using it for 3 years.  That's how I went from a 25 handicap to a 3.

[Redvalic]

What is "Flipping"?

[JackLee]

Originally Posted by Redvalic

What is "Flipping"?

If the clubhead passes your hands before or through impact, then you have flipped.  The cause is an arm swing that gets ahead of your body movements.  You get to the release and your body is not in position to allow you to maintain extension and swing through with a flat lead wrist that is facing your swing path.  Then you have three choices.  1. You can flip the clubhead forward with your hands to hit the ball with something close to a square clubface.  2. You can close the clubface.  3. You can leave the clubface open.

From choices 2. and 3. you should understand that this same swing fault can be a big contributor to pulls, hooks, pushes, and slices.

The solution is to swing the club with your body and hands, not your arms and hands.  Body and arms is also called a body powered swing.  This is not something new.  All really good players have figured out a way to pull the arms down and through with the correct body movements.  I recommend the "golf swing master key" instruction because it is the best, in my opinion, even though the author is an old man with no letters after his name.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by JackLee

All really good players have figured out a way to pull the arms down and through with the correct body movements.

That's not entirely true. A great many players feel like they're push ing the handle down, or in TGM terms, a great many players feel like "hitters" rather than swingers.

Originally Posted by JackLee

I recommend the ....

Yes, please stop recommending it to people. The only time you seem to post is when you can say those words. It's getting old, and you're seemingly only on here to promote the thing.

[CuppedTin]

I think a another big reason for flipping, at least in my case was not having my shoulders level at address. My rear shoulder was always a good 2-3 inches lower. I have leveled out my shoulders by feeling like I am tilting toward the target at address and keeping my spine angle.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by CuppedTin

I think a another big reason for flipping, at least in my case was not having my shoulders level at address. My rear shoulder was always a good 2-3 inches lower. I have leveled out my shoulders by feeling like I am tilting toward the target at address and keeping my spine angle.

Your shoulders really shouldn't be level. They may feel level, but 10-15 degrees of tilt is normal, and some players have more. You want a fair amount of tilt at impact, too.

[JackLee]

Originally Posted by iacas

That's not entirely true. A great many players feel like they're pushing the handle down, or in TGM terms, a great many players feel like "hitters" rather than swingers.

Yes, please stop recommending it to people. The only time you seem to post is when you can say those words. It's getting old, and you're seemingly only on here to promote the thing.

Hey Erik, I'm just trying to help people, but it's probably a waste of my time.  I think most players who are struggling will not believe that there is an easy way to swing a golf club that instructors are not telling them about.  Of course, most instructors may not even know about it.  That's bad for the players, but great for the instructors.  The instructors can keep getting their cut of the multi-million dollar golf swing instruction pie.

If you delete or change this, then you will have confirmed my present opinion of you.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by JackLee

Hey Erik, I'm just trying to help people, but it's probably a waste of my time.  I think most players who are struggling will not believe that there is an easy way to swing a golf club that instructors are not telling them about.  Of course, most instructors may not even know about it.  That's bad for the players, but great for the instructors.  The instructors can keep getting their cut of the multi-million dollar golf swing instruction pie.

If you delete or change this, then you will have confirmed my present opinion of you.

Oh cry me a river. I've taught hundreds of people and helped hundreds more on the forum, and I do it by giving them advice that's based in geometry, science, physics, and practical real-world application and knowledge, and I do so publicly, right here out in the open. All you ever tell people is "google this thing."

I agree that most golf instruction sucks, but you're full of if you think the golf swing is "easy" or that golf instructors are just rolling in dough selling the duffers on lessons that won't make them better. If the golf swing was "easy" - if it was "easy" to guide a clubhead traveling at 100 MPH to within about an eighth of an inch of precision in several dimensions and within a degree or two of angular precision, someone would be rich and there'd be no need for instructors and, well, the game of golf would have died because there'd be no challenge left in it.

Get real. And get back on topic. The topic isn't some spammer's opinion of me, it's "flipping."

[mchepp]

Originally Posted by iacas

Oh cry me a river buddy. I've taught hundreds of people and helped hundreds more on the forum, and I do it by giving them advice that's based in geometry, science, physics, and practical real-world application and knowledge, and I do so publicly, right here out in the open. All you ever tell people is "google this thing."

I agree that most golf instruction sucks, but you're full of  if you think the golf swing is "easy." That's not me playing some role - that's the simple truth of the matter. If the golf swing was "easy" - if it was "easy" to guide a clubhead traveling at 100 MPH to within about an eighth of an inch of precision in several dimensions and within a degree or two of angular precision, someone would be rich and there'd be no need for instructors and, well, the game of golf would have died because there'd be no challenge left in it.

Get real.

I liked your previous post better.

JackLee,

Flipping is a curse, I feel many of us good golfers have become master flippers. The idea that a person could read some e-Book off a guys website (a website that looks like a scam by the way) and stop flipping is really hard to believe. You may have gone from a 25 to a 3, but that might have nothing to do with fixing a flip. You may have reduced it, but just floating your handicap out there is not proof. Now some before and after pictures and even better a video showing the changes, now that is something I can believe.

[JackLee]

Originally Posted by mchepp

I liked your previous post better.

JackLee,

Flipping is a curse, I feel many of us good golfers have become master flippers. The idea that a person could read some e-Book off a guys website (a website that looks like a scam by the way) and stop flipping is really hard to believe. You may have gone from a 25 to a 3, but that might have nothing to do with fixing a flip. You may have reduced it, but just floating your handicap out there is not proof. Now some before and after pictures and even better a video showing the changes, now that is something I can believe.

You're a 5.1 cap and you are a flipper.  Congratulations, that must be very difficult.

I don't have any before video, and after video would not prove anything.  A master key swing just looks like many of the pros.  It's what's in the players head that counts, and you cannot see that.  BTW, the clubhead does not pass my hands until the shaft is almost horizontal to the ground in my follow through.  But that's a result, not something I think about.

Hey Erik, I'm on topic here, but no one believes me.  They've all bought into the notion that it takes years to develop a good golf swing.  What a crock!

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by JackLee

You're a 5.1 cap and you are a flipper.  Congratulations, that must be very diffucult.

There are +5 handicap flippers out there challenging for the world #1 ranking.

[JackLee]

Yes, you can hit good shots with a flip, if it's not too early.  I was a flipper until May, 2008.  I hit a few good shots with that swing, but I was shooting in the high 90s.  I like the swing I have now much better, and my scores too.

[mchepp]

Originally Posted by JackLee

You're a 5.1 cap and you are a flipper.  Congratulations, that must be very difficult.

I don't have any before video, and after video would not prove anything.  A master key swing just looks like many of the pros.  It's what's in the players head that counts, and you cannot see that.  BTW, the clubhead does not pass my hands until the shaft is almost horizontal to the ground in my follow through.  But that's a result, not something I think about.

Hey Erik, I'm on topic here, but no one believes me.  They've all bought into the notion that it takes years to develop a good golf swing.  What a crock!

The fact that you don't believe that a video would not prove anything is pretty much the end of any true debate on this topic. You don't want to provide evidence of your claim fine don't expect anyone to believe you. If you don't have a before, that is totally fine, but then you should have an after and that would end the debate because you would be providing proof, not just your words.

Don't you see how after this post someone provides pictures, evidence of flipping, how it proves their point. In fact you even backtrack on your comments because you have seen the evidence.

If you have the simple solution to solving a flip and it can be done by reading an e-book produce evidence and I guarantee people will follow. Don't tell me it is in my head, what kind of evidence is that? "All the pro's do it", what in the world are you talking about. There are multiple releases that professionals use to deliver the club to the ball. I bet it is some crock like "start the swing with your lower body", buy a Golf Digest some pro in there will tell you that.