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franky21

Brandel Chamblee is the biggest Tiger hater

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Brandel may not be the first choice for many of us but he was a tour player and brings an insight to the game that makes you think. I don't believe he is a Tiger basher he simply states his opinion and backs it up with data.

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Not that unbelievable.

I think what Brandel is saying is that "It's time to play golf, not golf swing."

Let's face it, Tiger has done Trackman, new swing, etc, for 3 years. Time to play.

A big chunk of that time he was injured and could not work on the swing.  Yet he has done something this year only 2 other players (Nick Price and Vijay Singh) have done over the past 30 years - win 5 times.  It is the very fact that he himself has done this 10 times that makes us forget just what an amazing achievement that is.  The guy who would be the greatest player of his era had Tiger never existed, Phil Mickelson never has done it even one time.  He has won 4 in a season 3 times, but never 5.  And 4 wins in a season is a hell of an achievement in its own right, let alone doing it 3 times.

Brandel may not be the first choice for many of us but he was a tour player and brings an insight to the game that makes you think. I don't believe he is a Tiger basher he simply states his opinion and backs it up with data.

Highly selective data.

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A big chunk of that time he was injured and could not work on the swing.  Yet he has done something this year only 2 other players (Nick Price and Vijay Singh) have done over the past 30 years - win 5 times.  It is the very fact that he himself has done this 10 times that makes us forget just what an amazing achievement that is.  The guy who would be the greatest player of his era had Tiger never existed, Phil Mickelson never has done it even one time.  He has won 4 in a season 3 times, but never 5.  And 4 wins in a season is a hell of an achievement in its own right, let alone doing it 3 times.

I think Brandel is giving Tiger the Bagger Vance and Ben Hogan Treatment -  you've used the technology, you've learned from it, you've spent time with Foley learning -- it's now time to find your swing.

In fairness to Foley, I think that's what he tries to do with his students - Mahan, Rose, Woods, et al. At least I'm told they don't have the same swing. He tries to find patterns that work for that individual.

As I may have stated in another post, he's had Foley for almost 3.5 years, some of that time was injury, and some of that time was to recover from the divorce and growing accustomed to being a single dad. We're also talking about the best golfer, at least, over the last 30 years, if not all time. In sum, Brandel is saying, c'mon, find it in the dirt. At the same time, maybe Tiger is trying to find it in the dirt. It's just not working as consistently as Brandel or golfers want.

But with Tiger, he scrambled under Haney - his putter saved him many times. Now the putter disappears more frequently.

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Brandel is not a hater.

He misses the old Tiger.

He has praised and criticized the "new" Tiger.

It's exasperating at times, but I like it.

Yes, agree completely.  The title of this thread should probably be something more like "Internet Golf Forum Users Are The Biggest Brandel Haters."  If people would actually listen to him talk, they would realize he doesn't hate Tiger at all.  He raves about him, and is very critical of him, because he believes that he is not living up to his potential.  I said this in the other Brandel thread as well ... but basically in the same way a dad or a coach would talk about their son or best player who's underacheiving.

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Yes, agree completely.  The title of this thread should probably be something more like "Internet Golf Forum Users Are The Biggest Brandel Haters."  If people would actually listen to him talk, they would realize he doesn't hate Tiger at all.  He raves about him, and is very critical of him, because he believes that he is not living up to his potential.  I said this in the other Brandel thread as well ... but basically in the same way a dad or a coach would talk about their son or best player who's underacheiving.

Could not agree more, a perfect analogy father to son. He BC can be critical, down right direct. I never considered him to be spiteful. BC loves numbers and stats, but I don't believe he leaves stats on the cutting room floor. He uses them wisely and to bolster his point or view. I have also seen and heard him with regularity praise Tiger.

I would venture to say that people that have a strong distaste for Brandel, are the same people that do not like to debate when presented by facts, raw data etc. Unfortunately emotion and opinion are not part of any debate for these to feel comfortable with- hence they believe BC is aggressively attacking Tiger. Logical I guess

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Yes, agree completely.  The title of this thread should probably be something more like "Internet Golf Forum Users Are The Biggest Brandel Haters."  If people would actually listen to him talk, they would realize he doesn't hate Tiger at all.  He raves about him, and is very critical of him, because he believes that he is not living up to his potential.  I said this in the other Brandel thread as well ... but basically in the same way a dad or a coach would talk about their son or best player who's underacheiving.

I believe this is a fair question, and I will say that I think Brandel is doing a fine job of doing his job, but my question is this: how do you know that Brandel knows what Tiger's potential is? Is it possible that he relies too much on the year 2000 - a freak occurrence given the depth of fields, etc. for even Tiger to be that dominant - and it clouds his perception of things?

I agree that he praises Tiger and gets frustrated that he's not living up to his potential - that's how he feels, I believe, as you do - but in doing so is he giving too much weight to 2000, or not giving enough credit to the players of the modern era and how they've improved? 2000 was too early for fitness to take hold, etc. Tiger won the Masters, then went away with swing change #1 for awhile, won the PGA, and then 2000 came on like a freight train.

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I believe this is a fair question, and I will say that I think Brandel is doing a fine job of doing his job, but my question is this: how do you know that Brandel knows what Tiger's potential is? Is it possible that he relies too much on the year 2000 - a freak occurrence given the depth of fields, etc. for even Tiger to be that dominant - and it clouds his perception of things?

I agree that he praises Tiger and gets frustrated that he's not living up to his potential - that's how he feels, I believe, as you do - but in doing so is he giving too much weight to 2000, or not giving enough credit to the players of the modern era and how they've improved? 2000 was too early for fitness to take hold, etc. Tiger won the Masters, then went away with swing change #1 for awhile, won the PGA, and then 2000 came on like a freight train.

Oh, I absolutely do NOT know that Brandel knows what Tigers potential is, and in fact, I'm about 99.99% confident that Brandel has absolutely no clue what Tiger's potential is.  Nobody does, nobody ever will.  Not even Tiger.  Whichever road Tiger travels - to try and reach his potential, - the other road is untraveled.  Anybody can come along and say he'd have done better had he taken that other road and there really is no way to dispute that.

I'm just saying that Brandel believing that Tiger is training incorrectly and would do better if he did it Brandel's way is absolutely NOT him "hating" Tiger.

P.S.  I agree 100% with everything else you said.

P.P.S.  I don't agree with Brandel.  Tiger is on the right path, IMO, and next year (barring injury) will be even bigger than this year.  6 wins, including the Masters AND British Open .  You heard it here first!!!

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Quote:
Tiger is on the right path, IMO, and next year (barring injury) will be even bigger than this year.  6 wins, including the Masters AND British Open .  You heard it here first!!!

not from you....but I have heard this countless times, dating back to 2009.

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not from you....but I have heard this countless times, dating back to 2009.

So we should rename this thread "Spitfisher is the biggest Tiger hater" - is that what you're saying?

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not from you....but I have heard this countless times, dating back to 2009.

Which makes sense, because Tiger went from winning zero tournaments in 2010 and 2011 to winning three times in 2012 and five times in 2013. Is that the wrong path?

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Which makes sense, because Tiger went from winning zero tournaments in 2010 and 2011 to winning three times in 2012 and five times in 2013.

Is that the wrong path?

In a world of 60%ers if a guy stands out as a 90%er, some people just have to criticize him for not reaching that last 10%, while the rational people just enjoy the fact that he is so far above everyone else.  Brandel is one of the ones who criticize him for not reaching that last 10%.

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I agree Brandel is entitled to his opinion and his opinion should carry more weight than any of us who didn't make the PGA Tour.  Let's keep in mind that when we provide an opinion there aren't typically any ulterior motives behind voicing the opinion.  Brandel is in the business of staying relevant and critiquing Tiger online is a great way to stir up controversy to get coverage by the major media outlets.

As for the specific comments, I think Tiger is getting older, his body is changing and he's attempting to make a final swing change that will take him the rest of the way.  The new swing will take some more time before he's as good with it as the past ones.  None of what Brandel wrote explains why Tiger is having issues with the putter which has caused him as many problems during recent Majors as his full swing.

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Tiger x BC has triggered a torrent of keystrokes on TST. Besides this thread, we have:

  • "Is there a bigger Tiger hater than Brandel Chamblee" started 8/12/11 by tmf9 (49 replies)
  • "DQ Brandel Chamblee from the Golf Channel" started 2/25/11 by franky21 (236 replies)

For the record, BC has been more encouraging of Tiger this season. Here's a July 20 comment I made on the BC's shift in the DQ Brandel thread:

This morning, BC said Tiger was playing better than last year - shades of the old Tiger - that his game was more sound since the elbow issue had passed, and that Tiger definitely had a chance to win the (British) Open Championship!!!

What a surprising world we live in...

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Note: This thread is 2233 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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