AimPoint Green Reading

[Ernest Jones]

Which part of the feet is considered more accurate / sensitive to the slope, toe/heel pressure or ankle roll (inside/outside foot) pressure?

Generally speaking you sense the difference between your two feet. One foot will be higher than the other and you'll feel that as avariation in weight distribution. If you haven't taken the class (can't recall if you have) then I highly recommend it. You'll never figure it out from any of the AP threads. It's really easy but still requires a good (in person) teacher.

[RFKFREAK]

Generally speaking you sense the difference between your two feet. One foot will be higher than the other and you'll feel that as avariation in weight distribution.

If you haven't taken the class (can't recall if you have) then I highly recommend it. You'll never figure it out from any of the AP threads. It's really easy but still requires a good (in person) teacher.

Yeah, in addition to that, I feel the calibration isn't something you can just teach yourself.

[natureboy]

Generally speaking you sense the difference between your two feet. One foot will be higher than the other and you'll feel that as avariation in weight distribution.

If you haven't taken the class (can't recall if you have) then I highly recommend it. You'll never figure it out from any of the AP threads. It's really easy but still requires a good (in person) teacher.

Yeah, in addition to that, I feel the calibration isn't something you can just teach yourself.

I expect I will take a class at some point in the future.

I just want to become more conscious of these sensations to enhance my useful awareness and intuitive reading of slopes through my practice and play.

[RFKFREAK]

I expect I will take a class at some point in the future.

I just want to become more conscious of these sensations to enhance my useful awareness and intuitive reading of slopes through my practice and play.

Remind me to discuss it with you if we play a round this year.  I can tell you who the instructor is and give you his contact info.

[Mr. Desmond]

Having taken aim point midpoint and express, and having the DVD, the DVD is not a sub for the class, but serves as a great refresher for those who have taken the class

[natureboy]

Remind me to discuss it with you if we play a round this year.  I can tell you who the instructor is and give you his contact info.

Cool. I know who he is.

Any answer on my question on da feet?

[RFKFREAK]

Cool. I know who he is.

Any answer on my question on da feet?

I thought @Ernest Jones answered your question pretty well.

See, the thing is, I don't think about it in those terms.  I took the class and based on what I felt when I was gauging the slope with my feet, that's what I go with.  I don't think about it in technical terms, I just feel what I feel and what I assign that feeling to, I go with.

[boil3rmak3r]

I've watched the DVD and I think this. [LIST] [*] The vast majority of people will think they've "gotten" AimPoint Express after watching the DVD. [*] The majority of people will not get quite enough from it to really get it. [*] Even still, that smaller majority will still putt better than if they hadn't watched the DVD. [*] You can't calibrate yourself very accurately after watching the DVD. That almost requires either a MidPoint background or a certified instructor. [/LIST] If the DVD costs $85 (shipping included) and a class costs $125, the $125 is the better value, no question. You should leave the class with NO questions, really, PLUS the majority of AimPoint instructors lets you audit future classes FREE. So you can always stay on top of things for no extra cost. I guess that's almost like watching the DVD again… except again, not really. The DVD might get you 1/2 of the way there. The class gets you all the way there. Either way, whether you take the class or not, you should buy a digital level, like this one (9-10" is great): [URL=http://smile.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode;=ur2&camp;=1789&creative;=9325&tag;=thesandtrap-20&location;=http%3A%2F%2Fsmile.amazon.com%2FHusky-9-in-Digital-Level%2Fdp%2FB0090SGCLE%2F]http://smile.amazon.com/Husky-9-in-Digital-Level/dp/B0090SGCLE/[/URL] that can measure in % slope. P.S. Dave and I fully support Mark doing this, too. We may be in the minority on that, but we encouraged him to make a DVD.

I have had Aimpoint on my radar for a while, as I've seen enough proof that it really works. There have been many posts in this thread asking if a DVD or book could be used to teach the method. Most of those questions were likely asked by folks like me, who would have to drive a considerable distance to attend an actual Aimpoint class. The response to that question has been an unequivocal NO. Now, a DVD is out on Express. When I go to the website, it never mentions that the DVD will only get a majority of people to a point where they "think" they've gotten it. It never mentions that it will take an in-person lesson to really get it. So, while you were adamant before that there was no way to teach this in a DVD, why did you support a DVD, to be made? Also, if I was a DVD-only student, you're opinion is that I'll "think" I've got it. What will I not "get"? The only thing I've seen in this thread is that it seems to be nearly impossible to "learn" from your feet without a class. I find that odd. If I do that on my own, I simply find 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 %'s (based on the level I need to buy whether I take an in-person class or the DVD training), and just learn how to feel each. That seems simple. What other areas will a DVD-only student "not get"? I am considering buying the DVD and need to weigh that option against the extra expense of traveling a long distance to attend a class. I appreciate any insight you can provide.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

I've watched the DVD and I think this.

The vast majority of people will think they've "gotten" AimPoint Express after watching the DVD.

The majority of people will not get quite enough from it to really get it.

Even still, that smaller majority will still putt better than if they hadn't watched the DVD.

You can't calibrate yourself very accurately after watching the DVD. That almost requires either a MidPoint background or a certified instructor.

If the DVD costs $85 (shipping included) and a class costs $125, the $125 is the better value, no question. You should leave the class with NO questions, really, PLUS the majority of AimPoint instructors lets you audit future classes FREE. So you can always stay on top of things for no extra cost. I guess that's almost like watching the DVD again… except again, not really.

The DVD might get you 1/2 of the way there. The class gets you all the way there.

Either way, whether you take the class or not, you should buy a digital level, like this one (9-10" is great): http://smile.amazon.com/Husky-9-in-Digital-Level/dp/B0090SGCLE/ that can measure in % slope.

P.S. Dave and I fully support Mark doing this, too. We may be in the minority on that, but we encouraged him to make a DVD.

I have had Aimpoint on my radar for a while, as I've seen enough proof that it really works. There have been many posts in this thread asking if a DVD or book could be used to teach the method. Most of those questions were likely asked by folks like me, who would have to drive a considerable distance to attend an actual Aimpoint class. The response to that question has been an unequivocal NO.

Now, a DVD is out on Express. When I go to the website, it never mentions that the DVD will only get a majority of people to a point where they "think" they've gotten it. It never mentions that it will take an in-person lesson to really get it.

So, while you were adamant before that there was no way to teach this in a DVD, why did you support a DVD, to be made?

Also, if I was a DVD-only student, you're opinion is that I'll "think" I've got it. What will I not "get"? The only thing I've seen in this thread is that it seems to be nearly impossible to "learn" from your feet without a class. I find that odd. If I do that on my own, I simply find 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 %'s (based on the level I need to buy whether I take an in-person class or the DVD training), and just learn how to feel each. That seems simple. What other areas will a DVD-only student "not get"?

I am considering buying the DVD and need to weigh that option against the extra expense of traveling a long distance to attend a class. I appreciate any insight you can provide.

I've just purchased and viewed the DVD.  I've been using AimPoint for three years.  I think the difference between the DVD and an actual class is the hands on instruction you will get from a certified instructor.  You will get up to speed faster in a class.  The DVD gives you all the information you need, but you don't have the instructor their with you.  There was an example in the DVD where the students posture was corrected to help read the slope better.  You won't have other eyes on you if you learn by yourself, so it will take a little longer to become proficient at it.  I think it is a good option if you don't have an instructor within a reasonable driving distance.  That is why it was good for them to produce a DVD.

I will say that you need to have a digital level to learn how to read slope with your feet.  That is a must in my opinion.  It is the single most important part of AimPoint, knowing the slope.  Stimp is second.  The rest is physics.

[newtogolf]

I've just purchased and viewed the DVD.  I've been using AimPoint for three years.  I think the difference between the DVD and an actual class is the hands on instruction you will get from a certified instructor.  You will get up to speed faster in a class.  The DVD gives you all the information you need, but you don't have the instructor their with you.  There was an example in the DVD where the students posture was corrected to help read the slope better.  You won't have other eyes on you if you learn by yourself, so it will take a little longer to become proficient at it.  I think it is a good option if you don't have an instructor within a reasonable driving distance.  That is why it was good for them to produce a DVD.

I will say that you need to have a digital level to learn how to read slope with your feet.  That is a must in my opinion.  It is the single most important part of AimPoint, knowing the slope.  Stimp is second.  The rest is physics.

The digital level is mandatory and you have to spend a lot of time practicing slope reads.  I started by mapping 5 spots on my backyard putting green that represent slopes of 1-5 percent.  I would then walk to other spots on the green to test myself with the level.  I haven't had a lot of time to practice but I still misread by 1% about 50% of the time.  I also have done testing with different shoes and found that I seem to be more accurate wearing Trues than my normal golf shoes (FJ ICON).

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I've just purchased and viewed the DVD.  I've been using AimPoint for three years.  I think the difference between the DVD and an actual class is the hands on instruction you will get from a certified instructor.  You will get up to speed faster in a class.  The DVD gives you all the information you need, but you don't have the instructor their with you.  There was an example in the DVD where the students posture was corrected to help read the slope better.  You won't have other eyes on you if you learn by yourself, so it will take a little longer to become proficient at it.  I think it is a good option if you don't have an instructor within a reasonable driving distance.  That is why it was good for them to produce a DVD.

I will say that you need to have a digital level to learn how to read slope with your feet.  That is a must in my opinion.  It is the single most important part of AimPoint, knowing the slope.  Stimp is second.  The rest is physics.

The digital level is mandatory and you have to spend a lot of time practicing slope reads.  I started by mapping 5 spots on my backyard putting green that represent slopes of 1-5 percent.  I would then walk to other spots on the green to test myself with the level.  I haven't had a lot of time to practice but I still misread by 1% about 50% of the time.  I also have done testing with different shoes and found that I seem to be more accurate wearing Trues than my normal golf shoes (FJ ICON).

I do that on the practice greens, especially early in the season.

[Valleygolfer]

I've just purchased and viewed the DVD.  I've been using AimPoint for three years.  I think the difference between the DVD and an actual class is the hands on instruction you will get from a certified instructor.  You will get up to speed faster in a class.  The DVD gives you all the information you need, but you don't have the instructor their with you.  There was an example in the DVD where the students posture was corrected to help read the slope better.  You won't have other eyes on you if you learn by yourself, so it will take a little longer to become proficient at it.  I think it is a good option if you don't have an instructor within a reasonable driving distance.  That is why it was good for them to produce a DVD. I will say that you need to have a digital level to learn how to read slope with your feet.  That is a must in my opinion.  It is the single most important part of AimPoint, knowing the slope.  Stimp is second.  The rest is physics.

Umm... Can I borrow your dvd... and level... and....

[boil3rmak3r]

I've watched the DVD and I think this. [LIST] [*] The vast majority of people will think they've "gotten" AimPoint Express after watching the DVD. [*] The majority of people will not get quite enough from it to really get it. [*] Even still, that smaller majority will still putt better than if they hadn't watched the DVD. [*] You can't calibrate yourself very accurately after watching the DVD. That almost requires either a MidPoint background or a certified instructor. [/LIST] If the DVD costs $85 (shipping included) and a class costs $125, the $125 is the better value, no question. You should leave the class with NO questions, really, PLUS the majority of AimPoint instructors lets you audit future classes FREE. So you can always stay on top of things for no extra cost. I guess that's almost like watching the DVD again… except again, not really. The DVD might get you 1/2 of the way there. The class gets you all the way there. Either way, whether you take the class or not, you should buy a digital level, like this one (9-10" is great): [URL=http://smile.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode;=ur2&camp;=1789&creative;=9325&tag;=thesandtrap-20&location;=http%3A%2F%2Fsmile.amazon.com%2FHusky-9-in-Digital-Level%2Fdp%2FB0090SGCLE%2F]http://smile.amazon.com/Husky-9-in-Digital-Level/dp/B0090SGCLE/[/URL] that can measure in % slope. P.S. Dave and I fully support Mark doing this, too. We may be in the minority on that, but we encouraged him to make a DVD.

I asked this before, but I'll try again... Your statements above basically tell me that the DVD will marginally improve my putting, but a session with an instructor would give me the rest of the information/training I'd need. The DVD alone would leave me "thinking" I know how to do it, but I'd be wrong... First, why did you support the DVD to be made when you previously told all of us that it would be impossible to teach this in any other method than in person? I'm curious... Also, you obviously feel the DVD I will not truly teach us how to use Aimpoint Express. You don't need to give away proprietary information, but can you give use a generalized explanation as to why the DVD is inadequate?

[iacas]

I asked this before, but I'll try again...

Yes, you asked a whole 30 hours ago. I had a draft I didn't have time to finish yesterday saved for posting today. :-P

I have had Aimpoint on my radar for a while, as I've seen enough proof that it really works. There have been many posts in this thread asking if a DVD or book could be used to teach the method. Most of those questions were likely asked by folks like me, who would have to drive a considerable distance to attend an actual Aimpoint class. The response to that question has been an unequivocal NO.

That tells you something.

Now, a DVD is out on Express. When I go to the website, it never mentions that the DVD will only get a majority of people to a point where they "think" they've gotten it. It never mentions that it will take an in-person lesson to really get it.

Why would it say that? Sounds like a bad marketing plan to me.

So, while you were adamant before that there was no way to teach this in a DVD, why did you support a DVD, to be made?

I encouraged Mark to make a DVD because it's a great avenue and way to reach golfers. For example, golfers can buy the 5 Simple Keys® DVD, but it often still takes in-person instruction to properly apply everything. There's still value in the 5SK® DVDs, but it's not a 100% replacement for everything. DVDs let you reach people you might not otherwise be able to reach, plus they expand the market. The same is true of the AimPoint DVDs.

I'm not sure that answers your question, but… I think it does.

I am considering buying the DVD and need to weigh that option against the extra expense of traveling a long distance to attend a class. I appreciate any insight you can provide.

The DVD is $90. The in-person class is $125 or so plus your travel. I think the in-person thing is worth the cost. I think others are telling you basically the same thing.

Many people are doing both.

[Ernest Jones]

@boil3rmak3r , pony up the extra $35 and gas money to take the in person. If you're going to invest in something don't invest halfway, you'll regret it later and likely end up taking the class anyway. I haven't seen the DVDs but I suspect they make a great supplement to the class, but as others have stated (over and over), they don't replace the real deal. It's like the SnT book, great book, but ultimately all but the very few will still need an instructor to get them where they need to be.

[Mr. Desmond]

Perhaps if Aimpoint Express 1 is not enough motivation or instruction to motivate to attend, it is about a 1 hr class (at least for me it was 1 hr), since the DVD seems to cover Express 1 & 2, perhaps the instructor would offer 1 & 2 in order to make the trip more worthwhile to you. But you would need the DVD afterwards -- as that is a lot of instruction to remember, and individuals will typically experience a loss of retention, especially on details.

[boil3rmak3r]

Yes, you asked a whole 30 hours ago. I had a draft I didn't have time to finish yesterday saved for posting today. :-P

That tells you something.

Why would it say that? Sounds like a bad marketing plan to me.

I encouraged Mark to make a DVD because it's a great avenue and way to reach golfers. For example, golfers can buy the 5 Simple Keys® DVD, but it often still takes in-person instruction to properly apply everything. There's still value in the 5SK® DVDs, but it's not a 100% replacement for everything. DVDs let you reach people you might not otherwise be able to reach, plus they expand the market. The same is true of the AimPoint DVDs.

I'm not sure that answers your question, but… I think it does.

The DVD is $90. The in-person class is $125 or so plus your travel. I think the in-person thing is worth the cost. I think others are telling you basically the same thing.

Many people are doing both.

I agree that trying to perfect a golf swing with books and videos can only get you so far.  We aren't talking about the full swing, though; we are discussing how to discern the break of a putt.  The full swing is extremely dynamic and a million things happen in about 1 second.  Reading a green is not like that...  I haven't had any AP training, but it sounds like you gather data (slope, stimp, distance, and fall point) and apply that information to a formula or method.  None of the students who left an AP seminar were experts in judging slope, stimp, fall point, etc..  They all had to buy a level and practice for a number of hours on their own.  Even after practice, many say they still struggle with gauging slope and fall points.  Many have even said they guestimate stimp and change their guestimate based on the results after a few holes.

I figured a DVD would basically be an APE live session captured on video (I realize it's not that simple, but hopefully you get my point).  In thinking that, the only drawback I figured the DVD would have is that I wouldn't have time to practice the method during class.  Apparently, that's not the case.

@boil3rmak3r , pony up the extra $35 and gas money to take the in person. If you're going to invest in something don't invest halfway, you'll regret it later and likely end up taking the class anyway. I haven't seen the DVDs but I suspect they make a great supplement to the class, but as others have stated (over and over), they don't replace the real deal. It's like the SnT book, great book, but ultimately all but the very few will still need an instructor to get them where they need to be.

Money isn't the issue.  Without hesitation, I agree that doing it in person would be better than the DVD.  My issue, however, is that I don't want to invest an entire day to attend a seminar (3 hour drive each way).  This time of year, I am usually either already on the road for my 16 y/o's travel volleyball tournament or at the soccer field for my 12 y/o's soccer game.

[Mr. Desmond]

Why not buy the DVD and later decide if you need the class?

Let's not overthink it... just do it.