Aim Bias and Putting Geometry

[iacas]

Here's an interesting video.

In this video, we see a putt that should be played outside the left edge of the hole. Instead, Sergio Garcia aims it right-center, then attempts to "release the putter" in an attempt to start the ball left enough.

His timing is off and he misses this short short putt. Perhaps if he had a putter that didn't aim him to the right, he'd have made it and not had to rely so much on timing. Eh?

[saevel25]

I will have to check it out, at least it might be interesting to see how close the putter i bought comes to a properly fitted one..

[mvmac]

Some pics of my Edel putter.  Got this about a year and a half ago, was fitted by Jason Goldsmith.  I am a right aimer and tend to set-up with too much loft.  So a mallet looks great to me, there is some offset on this putter and the dot helped me get my hands more forward at address.  Like Erik said, everything is custom, weight, shaft, color, etc.

[Shindig]

Some pics of my Edel putter.  Got this about a year and a half ago, was fitted by Jason Goldsmith.  I am a right aimer and tend to set-up with too much loft.  So a mallet looks great to me, there is some offset on this putter and the dot helped me get my hands more forward at address.  Like Erik said, everything is custom, weight, shaft, color, etc.

The putter looks gorgeous. I'm curious: how does the dot help you get your hands more forward at address?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Shindig

The putter looks gorgeous. I'm curious: how does the dot help you get your hands more forward at address?

Just the way my eyes interpret what I'm seeing to my hands.  That's the cool thing about the Edel fitting system, you get to try it all and see how it changes your alignment.  I tried it with nothing on the top line, might not be the right term, and also a line, ended up aiming too high, the dot allows me to aim with the right amount of loft.  Crazy stuff when you think about it.

[Roblar]

Just curious - how much time does it take to go through the fitting?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Roblar

Just curious - how much time does it take to go through the fitting?

30 to 90 minutes. Most of ours are right in the middle, including the distance (weight) fitting. I've heard others are faster but we're diligent and really want to make sure we explore a lot of options.

[pond prowler]

This is a great thread.  Hadn't given much thought about this before.  Getting back into the game again, I've found that my Scotty Cameron doesn't quite agree with my eyes the way it used to.  I tend to aim slightly left.  I've noticed that I've been making compensations, dying the ball into the hole on left-to-right putts and trying to power through the break on right-to-left putts.  I'll take a look into this.

This is just out of curiosity:  Have you taken any data on aim with respect to putts that break (right-to-left, left-to-right)?  That is, if you specify a particular spot that a client must aim the putter to start the putt in order to make it (assuming reasonable speed), does their aim seem to naturally vary from what is measured for the straight-on putt.  My hypothesis is that the presence of a hole might change things around for the mind's eye.  This is more of a psychological question than it is one of pure alignment or club fitting... Unless you want to carry multiple putters for various breaks!  Again, just curious.

[Stretch]

I putted like a complete chump yesterday, spoiling a decent ball-striking round. So I went to the practice green in the evening with a putting mirror to check out my alignments. Set it up about 15 feet away from the hole on a fairly flat section and, once I had the line right, made at least a dozen putts for each one I missed. Seems to me that suggests that either my stroke completely goes to **** as soon as I step on the course (moderately unlikely) or that I'm not actually aiming at the hole when I don't have the benefit of a physical aid to take care of that part of the puzzle for me (highly likely).

[iacas]

Originally Posted by pond prowler

This is just out of curiosity:  Have you taken any data on aim with respect to putts that break (right-to-left, left-to-right)?  That is, if you specify a particular spot that a client must aim the putter to start the putt in order to make it (assuming reasonable speed), does their aim seem to naturally vary from what is measured for the straight-on putt.

Your aim will still be the same unless the slope is severe enough to affect your posture some. If you aim left and pull putts you'll still see that on the LtoR and RtoL putts, with the differences in speed. People who aim left and have learned to shove their putts can sometimes do the opposite if they tend to over-shove (i.e. they may aim left, but because of that, they miss their line to the right).

Originally Posted by Stretch

I putted like a complete chump yesterday, spoiling a decent ball-striking round. So I went to the practice green in the evening with a putting mirror to check out my alignments. Set it up about 15 feet away from the hole on a fairly flat section and, once I had the line right, made at least a dozen putts for each one I missed. Seems to me that suggests that either my stroke completely goes to **** as soon as I step on the course (moderately unlikely) or that I'm not actually aiming at the hole when I don't have the benefit of a physical aid to take care of that part of the puzzle for me (highly likely).

You need to get fit for a putter! :-)

Here's a question for you, Stretch: when your putter was aimed at the hole, did it "look" open or shut to you?

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by iacas

You need to get fit for a putter! :-)

Here's a question for you, Stretch: when your putter was aimed at the hole, did it "look" open or shut to you?

No way. Fitting's a communist plot, man, and Dave Edel and Tom Wishon probably slap each other on the back at Stonecutters meetings and chuckle about how much money they've conned out of honest, though sadly credulous, golfers with their snake-oil personalization bullshit.

Seriously, though, SAM Puttlab pegged me for a 2 degree right aimer, so anything on line looks like it'll miss low to me. I went and found a 10-foot putt today with 4 inches of break from the right and even after getting perfectly lined up with the mirror and making 15 in a row I still stood over it thinking: "This has just got to go left of the hole."

Don't know if this squares with theory, but going from a double-bend mallet to a heel-shafted blade with more offset seems to have helped me in practice. I'm also trying to pick an intermediate aiming spot on the green when looking at the putt from behind the line and then sticking to that no matter how low it looks when I get into my address position. Work in progress...

[motteler621]

im currently trying to find the best putter for my stroke. Yesterday I played 9 and hit every fairway off the tee except one slightly in 2nd cut and only missed 2 greens in regulation saying that i duffed a chip shot, made 2 three putts. I really need to work on my short game to bring my handicap down, that seems to be whats holding it back mainly. My ballstriking is 70's level but my shortgame is holding my scores back

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by iacas

Here's a question for you, Stretch: when your putter was aimed at the hole, did it "look" open or shut to you?

Would that necessarily be due to the putter (club) not fitting the putter (person), or the putter (person) being misaligned in the set up?

And if it's the putter (club), could it be simply that the putter head is not square to the putter grip, which is frequently flat on the front?

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

And if it's the putter (club), could it be simply that the putter head is not square to the putter grip, which is frequently flat on the front?

That is certainly possible and I believe it's one of the reasons that Edel putters come with a round grip. Dana Upshaw (a well-known club fitter who uses a purpose-built laser device to check putter grips' alignment as part of his process) says that out of the many thousands he has measured in the course of his career, only a handful were truly square to the face. How much difference that would make, I don't know.

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by Stretch

That is certainly possible and I believe it's one of the reasons that Edel putters come with a round grip. Dana Upshaw (a well-known club fitter who uses a purpose-built laser device to check putter grips' alignment as part of his process) says that out of the many thousands he has measured in the course of his career, only a handful were truly square to the face. How much difference that would make, I don't know.

thats why I dont like regripping putters, i always think I might not have put it on square which can be hard to do and I dont know of anyway to make sure it is besides your eyes

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

Would that necessarily be due to the putter (club) not fitting the putter (person), or the putter (person) being misaligned in the set up?

And if it's the putter (club), could it be simply that the putter head is not square to the putter grip, which is frequently flat on the front?

The person should align the club, then take his stance relative to that. I can aim my putter if my stance is open or closed (both) or perfectly on-line. It won't matter. The key for me is that my eyes are parallel (or perpendicular to the face). But I can aim almost anything pretty well... I am not outside the hole except for some REALLY odd putters.

Edel putter grips are round, and even if you don't have an Edel, I recommend round putter grips because a mis-aligned putter grip is likely a terrible thing to have to deal with.

Can your personal alignment throw things off? Yes. But the point behind Edel putter fitting is that it removes one possible cause for mis-alignment. If you start to push all your putts, with an Edel putter, your stroke or your alignment (body, not putter) is off, and can be fixed. But at least you won't have to wonder if your PUTTER itself is mis-aligned.

[The Tin Man]

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[iacas]

Originally Posted by The Tin Man

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Did you have any questions or comments? Did we miss anything?