Do You Support the PGA's "Tee It Forward" Effort?

[Shindig]

I think the program is a good idea.  Even more so, I think it's a great idea for new golfers to start on par 3 courses.

Funny you should say that. I started primarily on par-3 and executive courses; probably the first 6 months that I played were only these, and primarily those for the following six months. Less than a year after setting foot on a regulation course, I broke 100. I have only once struggled to break 110 since I started playing with a full set. Meanwhile, one of my best friends started playing seriously a year and a half ago and just broke 110 for the first time on Saturday. His mediocre drives go well past all but my very very best, he's got easily a one or two club advantage on irons, and yet my handicap is a good 18 better.

[wmiller]

When I first heard of this, I was not impressed. Figured it was some marketing ploy to pack more bodies onto a golf course. But since then, I've played with several people who are trying to hit hybrids or woods into the same greens that I'm hitting a mid-iron into, and I started to appreciate where this may be going.

This person needed to move up at least one tee box, maybe two, in order to be hitting a mid or short iron into the green. I am fairly certain he would have enjoyed his round more.

But then...who is going to play with me from the tees I should be playing?

[lville lefty]

Some great comments here.  Based on the response it would seem the PGA and USGA need to get endorsement of the idea not only from golfers but from the course owners, PGA pros, and club managers.  To date I have not seen any promotion of the idea from the courses I have played.

I will be suggesting to our club owners to create a new set of tees between our blue and white set.  Hope they are agreeable.  It will cost them a few dollars in tee markers, new scorecards, and whatever it costs to have the USGA come out and rate the new set of tees. Anyone have an idea what the USGA or local PGA chapter charges to rate a course?

[tristanhilton85]

Yeah, I support the effort.  In general amateurs play from tees that are too long.  The course I normally play at is 6400 yards from the yellows as opposed to just over 7000 from the tips (it's 5800 from the whites).  I see far too many people playing from the tips that just shouldn't.  The course I'm playing at today (Silverrock, one of the Bob Hope courses) will be at 6200 yards from the tees I'll play (it's over 7500 from the tips).

[ochmude]

Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

Yeah, I support the effort.  In general amateurs play from tees that are too long.  The course I normally play at is 6400 yards from the yellows as opposed to just over 7000 from the tips (it's 5800 from the whites).  I see far too many people playing from the tips that just shouldn't.  The course I'm playing at today (Silverrock, one of the Bob Hope courses) will be at 6200 yards from the tees I'll play (it's over 7500 from the tips).

I've never even seen anyone play from the blue tees.  Off the top of my head I can't recall ever playing at a course that even had "tips".  Do I just need to get out more?

[sean_miller]

I think a comfortable length is one where I don't need to hit a driver on every every par 4 and par 5. Basically that describes every course and set of tees I've ever played from since I first took up the game. I've played with some people though who need to use a driver, then a fairway wood, just to have a full hybrid into the green . . . on medium length par 4s. What tee do those guys play from? Just drop one at the 200 marker and start from there?

[lumpuckeroo]

I have no issue with moving up, I've watched as my father has gotten older and has problems with distance.  For years now I have told my brother that when the day comes and I have to hit driver, 3 wood to a 350 yard par 4, kick my ass to a set of shorter tees.  I have no desire to play the game with 2 woods, a wedge and a putter, I will move up when I can no longer hit irons into greens.

I don't play a lot of long courses today, a lot of the courses I play are old courses, and from the back tees are no more than 6200 yards, that is a very comfortable distance for me.  Even when I play a new course, I will not play a set of tees over 6500 yards, I just don't have the length for anything longer than that.

[ghalfaire]

I suppose if the intent of the "tee it forward" is to have shorter hitting golfers enjoy the game more I think it is a good suggestion.  There are some courses that have 4-5 sets of tees and I think that is a good idea too.   But I doubt that playing shorter tees would reduce the average time to play a round of golf by any appreciable amount.  Slow play is caused by slow players, period.  If you belong to a club or a league you know who they are and it always the same people and a few of them are very low handicap players.  There are a lot of reasons for slow play but it isn't because someone has to take 3 shots to get to a long par 4, it is because of a lack of consideration for other players on the course and inattention to your own game.  Having said that the point of the game is go around the course in the least amount of strokes, not the least amount of time.  So I think any round of 4 hours +/- a few minutes is OK.  While I'm a believe in and try to play "ready golf",  I also recognize that it isn't a track meet as some players on the course would have you believe and taking 5-10 seconds for a pre-shot routine should not be a capital offense.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by ochmude

I've never even seen anyone play from the blue tees.  Off the top of my head I can't recall ever playing at a course that even had "tips".  Do I just need to get out more?

Maybe there is just more common sense where you are.  I'm not saying that everybody I see is trying to play from the back tees but there is a fair amount that does... and it's not always people playing the tips; sometimes it's old guys playing the yellows at my home course when they should be playing the whites.  I mean when you have to play the majority of par 4s as 5s and par 3s as 4s you should think about moving up.

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I suppose if the intent of the "tee it forward" is to have shorter hitting golfers enjoy the game more I think it is a good suggestion.  There are some courses that have 4-5 sets of tees and I think that is a good idea too.

From the article that I read, it's more than just "shorter hitting golfers" moving up.  The idea is that the vast majority of golfers have a distorted view of how far they hit the ball and that none of us have quite the distance that we think we do.  Also there is more to it than just playing a closer tee or cutting 500 or so yards off of the course.  Barney Adams proposes that many of the par 3s would maintain their length while making at least one of the par 5s reachable in two so that the average golfer has a chance to make eagle or have other scoring opportunities that they might not otherwise have.  So it wouldn't be so much as taking 20 yards or whatever it is off of every hole but rather altering each hole on an individual basis.

[rustyredcab]

My group has moved up from about 6500 yards to 6100 yards. Our course has five par 3's and five par 5's. The result is much more fun for all. More strategy, more playable par 3's, a few reachable risk/reward par 5's, and faster play. It is nice to have mid irons into par 3's once in a while. I'm the long hitter (and youngest guy) in the group. I thought I'd hate it and instead I love it. I even bought a new 3-wood because I have a reason to hit it now.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by wmiller

When I first heard of this, I was not impressed. Figured it was some marketing ploy to pack more bodies onto a golf course . . .

Don't think for one second that's not one of the main reasons. Member courses want people to play faster because they want people to keep coming back. The also want as many people on as many holes during as many hours of the day as possible. In the end, if if means I don't have to wait as often, and my group isn't holding anyone up, it's a win win for everyone.

[keygolf]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I suppose if the intent of the "tee it forward" is to have shorter hitting golfers enjoy the game more I think it is a good suggestion.  There are some courses that have 4-5 sets of tees and I think that is a good idea too.   But I doubt that playing shorter tees would reduce the average time to play a round of golf by any appreciable amount.  Slow play is caused by slow players, period.  If you belong to a club or a league you know who they are and it always the same people and a few of them are very low handicap players.  There are a lot of reasons for slow play but it isn't because someone has to take 3 shots to get to a long par 4, it is because of a lack of consideration for other players on the course and inattention to your own game.  Having said that the point of the game is go around the course in the least amount of strokes, not the least amount of time.  So I think any round of 4 hours +/- a few minutes is OK.  While I'm a believe in and try to play "ready golf",  I also recognize that it isn't a track meet as some players on the course would have you believe and taking 5-10 seconds for a pre-shot routine should not be a capital offense.

It may not decrease the time for the average round, but it will likely keep it from slowing down even more. The game has become so cerebral that players cannot simply play. They have to examine everything they are doing to a fault, so they get outside themselves and get lost in stuff that is foreign to their normal selves and start acting unlike their normal styles. 70% of the world's population is low assertive and slower in motion. Only 30 % are high and fast. So what we hear always is the complaint coming from the 30%.

That means that putting the tees forward is only half the battle. Still have to make it clear to all that most golfers are playing so far outside their given styles that this issue will still be in force in another hundred years. (That's also a factor in why even most pro golfers cannot sustain a win streak).

The forward tee idea is a good one, but better finish the sentence.

[carrx]

As a resident of Southern California, I'd say the PGA of America would have a lot more success with their "Tee It Forward" Campaign if they'd print the "Tee It Forward" signs in Korean or Japanese.

Don't take me the wrong way, but at the public courses in the South LA County area, the greatest culprits are most likely either Asian, or are duffers who don't play enough golf to know better.  From my experience, the semi-regular customers play the tees that best represent the tees they will play in their club tournaments, or in their money games with their peers.  As long as they keep moving, I have no problem with a short hitting 20 handicapper playing the back tees as long as they're ready to play when it's their turn.  The way I see it, if they want to get their butts kicked, it's their money.  But if they're slowing the course down by meandering around, not playing ready golf, and not keeping up with the group in front of them, that's a different story.

I frequently (I probably average about 1 rd per week) see older guys/gals groups play the back teees and keep it moving enough that it's hard to keep up with them.  They know their distances, they are ready to hit when it's their turn, and they have long since dispensed with the Ben Crane/Kevin Na pre-shot routines.  On the other hand, it's disconcerting to watch a player hit his tee shot 180 yds on a 400 yard hole, then WAIT for the green to clear before hitting his second.

Be ready to play when it's your turn, know the rules, and keep up!

[Paradox]

After another round..I still contend that length of tees isn't the problem.  Its a lack of understanding about what ready golf is, and also people who are just plain hacks playing from any tees.  My threesome was behind a group of 4 that sprayed their tee shots 50, 60, 70 yards LEFT OR RIGHT every hole.  Then, they would all drive to one ball at a time.  It wouldn't matter if they were playing from the most forward tees, they'd still be hitting horrible tee shots and not playing ready golf.

[wmiller]

I'm surprised that the golf courses haven't thought of this:

If everyone in a group wants to ride, put each into their OWN cart. Four players, four carts.

Once everyone tees off, each makes his way to his own ball, and hits when ready. The exception of course is that if your ball is directly in front of someone else, you need to go up the side of the fairway and wait for that person to hit. But you'd still be fairly close to your ball, know the approximate yardage, club, etc., etc..

Courses would make more money, play would speed up (hopefully). The course would take a beating from all the traffic, but hey, they're making more money, they can put a little more back into the course.

[meenman]

Originally Posted by wmiller

I'm surprised that the golf courses haven't thought of this:

If everyone in a group wants to ride, put each into their OWN cart. Four players, four carts.

Once everyone tees off, each makes his way to his own ball, and hits when ready. The exception of course is that if your ball is directly in front of someone else, you need to go up the side of the fairway and wait for that person to hit. But you'd still be fairly close to your ball, know the approximate yardage, club, etc., etc..

Courses would make more money, play would speed up (hopefully). The course would take a beating from all the traffic, but hey, they're making more money, they can put a little more back into the course.

This really wouldnt work. It would cost the course more, since they would have to have extra carts on hand. Electricity / Gas costs money and you would be doubling your expenses putting out the same amount of people. Also most courses can not handle double the traffic over the course.

I belong to a private course and 6 months of the year, even those that own private carts are required to double up. To keep the course in pristine condition, they had to cut the amount of traffic.

Part of golf is the socialization. With everyone in separate cars they may as well play by themselves.

[Harmonious]

My course did something this year that I thought would never work, but it did.  As a resort course in florida, we get a large number of vacationers and snowbirds in the winter, who either have a rusty golf game or no game at all.  And it seemed that invariably they thought they needed to play from the blacks (7400 yards).  Between hacking it around, looking for lost balls in the weeds and/or the water hazards, 5 to 5 1/2 hour rounds were commonplace.  So this year, the course removed all the black tee markers.  You could still play from there if you really wanted, but those unfamiliar with the course now drive right on by the tips tee boxes.  It has reduced the high season rounds by over 30 minutes, according to the starter.  There's an easy fix.  Probably won't work on a muni or course where most of the patrons are regulars.

[rustyredcab]

Played a course with friends that we rarely play. We made an informed decision to play from 6100 yards instead of 6500 yards. Hdcps from 6-25.

Got to the first tee and could one of the reasons this program is so hard to sell. The 6100 yard tees were way forward of the the 6500 tees -- maybe the biggest gap between them of any hole on the 18. And they seemed too far forward for the hole. I sure wish they would start with a small gap so that the macho guys did not feel that the 6100 yard tees were too far forward. There were plenty of holes where the gap was zero or maybe 15 yards. Why make it 30 - 40 yards on the first tee when guys are deciding what tees are right for their group?