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Thinking about blades


codwater
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Originally Posted by clubchamp

The pros are muscle backs meaning they have a slight cavity just like the picture shows. Most blades do not have any type of a cavity like the picture of the T zoid true irons. Which goes back to my original point that muscle backs give you a lot of feedback but a little more forgiveness than a blade because of the cavity.

Which I don't understand since generally there is clearly a difference and even the description of a muscle back is not the same as a blade.




I was always under the impression that blades refer more to irons that have smaller heads, a thinner sole and thinner topline than a GI iron.  I wouldnt call my Pros a muscleback because musclebacks have a lot of mass low on the back of the iron, hence the name, "muscleback".

I have heard some purists say that musclebacks are the only true blades. just like Sean is saying.  Those people would refer to my irons as a, "player's cavityback" because of the smaller head and thinner profile as compared to a, "game-improvement cavityback" like something in Mizzy's MX line.

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Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I was always under the impression that blades refer more to irons that have smaller heads, a thinner sole and thinner topline than a GI iron.  I wouldnt call my Pros a muscleback because musclebacks have a lot of mass low on the back of the iron, hence the name, "muscleback".

I have heard some purists say that musclebacks are the only true blades. just like Sean is saying.  Those people would refer to my irons as a, "player's cavityback" because of the smaller head and thinner profile as compared to a, "game-improvement cavityback" like something in Mizzy's MX line.


A lot of people now do define muscle back or player's cavityback as a blade because true blades are hard to find. If you look at the new taylor made line they have a cavity back, muscle cavity, and player's muscle back. The players muscle back is a blade but the muscle cavity has a thinner profile like the blade but they call it muscle cavity. If you look at older clubs you had a cavity back and blade there was no muscle cavity or whatever. Basically a blade doesn't have any type of a cavity but club manufactures have steered away as defining clubs as blades because it probably makes people think twice about buying them. Older blades look like a butter knife on the end of your shaft but technology has given blades a lot more forgiveness. Also technology has allowed muscle cavity or player's cavity to have just as much feel as a blade anymore.

Also in my opinion, I had the MX 23s and they were the perfect blend of forgiveness and feel. I used them for years but once they wore down I got MP 57s then moved to the ping s57s. I would put the mx 23s right up there with a lot of irons.

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Originally Posted by clubchamp

A lot of people now do define muscle back or player's cavityback as a blade because true blades are hard to find. If you look at the new taylor made line they have a cavity back, muscle cavity, and player's muscle back. The players muscle back is a blade but the muscle cavity has a thinner profile like the blade but they call it muscle cavity. If you look at older clubs you had a cavity back and blade there was no muscle cavity or whatever. Basically a blade doesn't have any type of a cavity but club manufactures have steered away as defining clubs as blades because it probably makes people think twice about buying them. Older blades look like a butter knife on the end of your shaft but technology has given blades a lot more forgiveness. Also technology has allowed muscle cavity or player's cavity to have just as much feel as a blade anymore.

Also in my opinion, I had the MX 23s and they were the perfect blend of forgiveness and feel. I used them for years but once they wore down I got MP 57s then moved to the ping s57s. I would put the mx 23s right up there with a lot of irons.

True.  I mean, you could technically call my T-Zoid Pros cavity backs but theres barely a cavity there.  Theyre definetly not musclebacks but theres not much in the way of perimiter weighting and they have that, "power bar" in the middle of the back side of the clubhead.

If people want to tell me they arent blades, thats cool.  Its not as if I get some kick out of thinking that Im better than those who choose to play GI irons.  Whatever it takes to get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes possible.

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Whatever gets more guys buying blades/musclebacks is okay by me, because as long as they're moving off the shelves, then companies like Titleist, Cleveland, Wishon, Mizuno, KZG, Miura, Scratch, etc will still keep making true blades for players and posers alike (I fall somewhere in the middle). Kudos.

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Originally Posted by TitleistWI

I have the pros.  Theyre still blades.  Ive also had Titleist DCI 981s and Mizuno MP-32s which both have cavity backs to them.  Still blades.  Youre confusing blades with musclebacks.


Titleist DCI 981 - cavity back

Mizzy T-Zoid Pro - cavity back

Mizzy MP 32 - 'cut muscle'; not a CB but arguably not a blade in the classic sense.

If you want a classic blade-type of iron, you could do worse than these: mizuno-mp-33.jpg .

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Cod, check these clubs out, the Mizuno MP-52's.... I play these and they may be up your alley!

http://thesandtrap.com/b/clubs/mizuno_mp-52_irons_review

Originally Posted by codwater

I have been taking lessons now for several months, and my swing is on point, although not fine tuned. I hit ping eye 2 irons because they were recomended to me a the mecca of forgiving irons.

I went to my lesson today. I hit three bad shots to start the lesson. My instructor put me through a little drill, and I was back to hitting nice lofty 100 yard shots with my wedge. They were a lengthy and as inaccurate as my shot are when I play a round.

When I play a round, I can pick the right club distance wise, but my aim is way off. I told my instructor and he gave me a few tips and drills. I am not slicing or hooking, just straight shot that ends up 20 yards left or right of where I am aiming. I took the instructors advice, and improved to hitting 15 yards to left or right from where I was aiming. My instructor told me it had to do more with my swing that my aim, and we moved on working on my wicked driver slice.

Once I finished my lesson my wife was up. I decided to go to the bucket of lost clubs to grab a blade and see what blades were all about. I have heard, "practice with blade if you want to learn true accuracy and playable shots." Well, I found a Spalding blade that had some tour guy's signature on it. It was four iron. I looked it over. It was much smaller than my eye 2s. I grabbed a handful of balls from my wife's bucket and took the stall next to her. I hit all my shot dead on. They were about 30 shorter than what I normall hit, but they were exactly where I was aiming. My instuctor kept tossing a couple of ball into my stall, and I just kept wacking accurate but short shots. I am going to try to hit some more with the blades this week. I think the accuracy came from the small club head. Because the head was smaller, I took more care to aim more carefully at my ball.

This is just an account of my lesson today. If anyone wants to interject, please do. I talked to my father in law and he said he would give me a set of 2 year old Callaway blades, because he can't hit them. He also told me he doubted my story because for the most part, only tour players play blades. I told him I would try then next time we are together, and if I hit them well, I will take them off of his hands.



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I started playing with a set of hand-me-down Callaway Big Bertha CB irons which were great.  My dad had a set of Ben Hogan blades that someone had given him and he had tried to use but said he couldn't hit.  As my game improved I eventually started working the blades into my bag starting with the 9, 8, and 7.  Started hitting them pretty good and worked the whole set into my bag.  Today that's all I use, I love the feel and the distance you get with them.  I occasionaly miss the sweet spot and they aren't forgiving.  Other than that I love them and don't think I'll ever go back to CB.

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I'm not exactly a low capper, and I play blades.  I even bag a 2i blade and a 60* wedge, oh the nerve of me!!!  I have my on days and off days, which would probably be no different than I would have with a set of cavity backs.  Could I save a few strokes per round using more forgiving clubs?  Possibly.  Would I get the same level of satisfaction when striping the ball with a CB versus a blade?  Definitely not.  Would I get the same feeling of awe and confidence when addressing a ball with a blade versus a shovel at the end of a stick?  Definitely not.

Play what you want to play, play what gives you confidence.  However with that said, I believe someone mentioned that if you don't plan on practicing than be forewarned, blades will be difficult to play with on an infrequent basis, however if you are serious about golf and put in the practice, there's no better feeling than pulling out a blade from the bag and hitting the ball inside your partner's, who happens to be playing with a CB.

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Originally Posted by ERdiesel

I'm not exactly a low capper, and I play blades.  I even bag a 2i blade and a 60* wedge, oh the nerve of me!!!  I have my on days and off days, which would probably be no different than I would have with a set of cavity backs.  Could I save a few strokes per round using more forgiving clubs?  Possibly.  Would I get the same level of satisfaction when striping the ball with a CB versus a blade?  Definitely not.  Would I get the same feeling of awe and confidence when addressing a ball with a blade versus a shovel at the end of a stick?  Definitely not.

Play what you want to play, play what gives you confidence.  However with that said, I believe someone mentioned that if you don't plan on practicing than be forewarned, blades will be difficult to play with on an infrequent basis, however if you are serious about golf and put in the practice, there's no better feeling than pulling out a blade from the bag and hitting the ball inside your partner's, who happens to be playing with a CB.



Man I can imagine the feeling of someone playing a CB gets when they hit it closer than someone playing a blades. A serious golfer plays to shoot the lowest score they possibly can on every hole. They don't play clubs to have a feeling of being good or possibly sacrifice strokes just to be playing a certain type of club.

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Originally Posted by ERdiesel

I'm not exactly a low capper, and I play blades.  I even bag a 2i blade and a 60* wedge, oh the nerve of me!!!  I have my on days and off days, which would probably be no different than I would have with a set of cavity backs.  Could I save a few strokes per round using more forgiving clubs?  Possibly.  Would I get the same level of satisfaction when striping the ball with a CB versus a blade?  Definitely not.  Would I get the same feeling of awe and confidence when addressing a ball with a blade versus a shovel at the end of a stick?  Definitely not.

Play what you want to play, play what gives you confidence.  However with that said, I believe someone mentioned that if you don't plan on practicing than be forewarned, blades will be difficult to play with on an infrequent basis, however if you are serious about golf and put in the practice, there's no better feeling than pulling out a blade from the bag and hitting the ball inside your partner's, who happens to be playing with a CB.




Agree.  Id rathar struggle sometimes with blades than to hit a big ole shovel of a SGI iron that has no feel.

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Now I own a set of blades and a set of cavity's (the aforementioned mp-52s along with a set of mp-32s), actually these clubs feel very similar for the most part they are fundamentally both Mizuno forged irons, they have the same lofts, swing weight and even look similar from above. Sometimes I take a mixed set to the practice ground, the extra feedback from the 32s can help me from a practice point of view, they are like bad swing amplifiers....

So having the comparison in my hands, I know that I couldn't use a full set of blades, I just don't strike the ball clean enough or swing well enough in real golf situations, those slight draws would become big draws, those 15 yard short slight toe hits would become 50 yard short toe hits. But I actually do feel I could use a split set if I wanted, if I switched out 7-PW with the 32's this wouldn't worry me at all, its the 3-6 irons that would do. The reason I don't do it is that there's no tangible benefit to me on the golf course .... I could take this to the extreme and switch to some SGI iron (and I've tried that)... the reason I don't follow that path is that I feel so disconnected from the ball and I hit the ball so obscenely high with that type of club that while I gain distance I throw a lot of accuracy out of the window, it doesn't work for me.

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Yeah I agree, total bullshit. CB's just give you a little forgiveness

Originally Posted by shades9323

This is complete and utter nonsense. I can certainly feel when I haven't hit the center of the face on my current set of cb's.  Hell, I could tell when I didn't hit the center of my G5's!



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Originally Posted by TitleistWI

Agree.  Id rathar struggle sometimes with blades than to hit a big ole shovel of a SGI iron that has no feel.



Ideally, I'd have just two sets of irons.

One set might be harder to play but I'd feel connected to ball, the earth, and the history of the game on each and every shot. Score wouldn't matter, but I'd still score okay. Most of my blades are actually too forgiving for this purpose. Even my 1960 era Burkes have too much forgiveness. I'm thinking something hickory shafted with original rock hard leather grips.

The second set would be as fugly as they needed to be in order to get the ball exactly where I wanted it after every stroke. They'd likely be gawdawful things aesthetically.  My old SM carry bag wouldn't even be able to contain the ginormous clubheads and my new staff bag (on a cart) would have the raincover (which would never come off in order to protect innocent bystanders from seeing their grotesque form in the light of day) bulging to near bursting in order to cover them all up. I'd list a few examples, but these babies aren't even on the market yet.

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Originally Posted by sean_miller

The second set would be as fugly as they needed to be in order to get the ball exactly where I wanted it after every stroke. They'd likely be gawdawful things aesthetically.  My old SM carry bag wouldn't even be able to contain the ginormous clubheads and my new staff bag (on a cart) would have the raincover (which would never come off in order to protect innocent bystanders from seeing their grotesque form in the light of day) bulging to near bursting in order to cover them all up. I'd list a few examples, but these babies aren't even on the market yet.


I thought you were talking about the Ping G20's for a moment.

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