How to effectively read greens? What works best?

[SAGolfLuvr]

Why is it that when someone else is in the act of putting, and I am tending the flag-stick for them, I immediately know if they have "made" the putt or not. However. When I am the one putting, I can't read the green effectively. It makes me believe that I can read a green but I don't allow myself to. As I am walking up the the green, the method I use, is to see the high point of the green and the low point with respect to pin location, then pick a release spot between the hole and I. Next I putt with just enough speed to let the ball break near the release point and roll 18" through the hole. I also try to "read" by spreading my toes and feeling the green. The results? I "see" breaks that don't exist or the ball breaks the wrong way. BTW, I don't truly understand the "with the grain against the grain" (shiny side and dull side of grass is not always clear to me) so my reliable Heavy Putter takes care of that for me. I need more one-putts on my scorecard.

What reliable green reading methods work for you folks?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by SAGolfLuvr

What reliable green reading methods work for you folks?

There's really only one green reading "method" out there. It works wonders, too. I suggest you get yourself to an AimPoint clinic immediately.

http://www.aimpointgolf.com/instruction.html

Click for a list of instructors and clinics.

[MiniBlueDragon]

iacas is spot on (as usual! lol) - AimPoint really is a revolution when it comes to reading greens. Hell even if you don't use the aim chart you'll be a better putter after a clinic. With the chart too it's almost like cheating.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by iacas

I suggest you get yourself to an AimPoint clinic immediately.

Ditto.  Can't say enough about it.

[RayG]

"What You Will Learn How to accurately identify slope How slope direction and grade affect break How your position on the slope influences break and speed How to identify your position on the slope How to determine precise break amounts based on position How to handle changing or multiple slopes How position relates to speed control How to determine optimum approach shot strategies..." For the average player who is hacking around on a Sunday morning, can you do all this in less than 20 minutes? I consider myself a pretty decent putter, rarely 3 putting under normal circumstances. I don't fill my brain with trigonometry and calculus to read a putt. I look at the green when making my approach shot and look for the best spot to land the ball that will leave the best putt. As I walk to the green, I look for the general layout of the green using the terrain around the green. I will GENERALLY only look at the putting line from behind my ball, take a quick plumb bob to get a general idea of the break. All this time I haven't held anyone up by stomping around the green looking for 'fall lines', shadows that might indicate grain, angles from the side, humidity, barometric pressure, wind chill, etc... I pay attention to what the other putts in the group are doing on their way TO the hole and when they go past. I'll find my aim point, line up my secondary logo to that, a practice stroke, then go. Granted, I've been playing for almost 40 years and a lot of this stuff is all done by feel and I don't think about it too much anyway. But if today's biggest complaint is slow play- having high handicappers spend even MORE time thinking about putting angles in addition to the swing thoughts you can see them going over in their heads every time they get over the ball, it's going to be a long day for everyone for quite some time. And if you want to become a better putter, then putt on good, smooth greens. Slow or fast, doesn't matter- You can't get better putting on bumpy, inconsistent greens. You will never get a feel for it. You can adjust for speed, but you cant adjust for the surface it's it's full of rough spots. If your local doesn't have at least smooth greens, then get together a group of people to complain about conditions and get things worked out. They may not need to completely redo them, just take more care of them and maintain them better.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by RayG

For the average player who is hacking around on a Sunday morning, can you do all this in less than 20 minutes?

It's a two-hour (or 2:30) class. Dollar for dollar it may be the best money you can spend on instruction.

Originally Posted by RayG

I don't fill my brain with trigonometry and calculus to read a putt. I look at the green when making my approach shot and look for the best spot to land the ball that will leave the best putt.

AimPoint is not trigonometry or calculus. You rely on your experience to read putts. And that's fine, but you're still guessing to an extent, and you can't just copy your experiences to someone else's brain so that they can learn.

I was skeptical how much I would get out of AimPoint as well given that I too read greens really well. Not only did AImPoint make me understand why I'd always been a good greens reader, but it made me a better reader of greens at every distance but it also dramatically sped up my green reading procedure. I've told the story a few times already, but there are times when you can read a putt from the tee and be dead on accurate.

Originally Posted by RayG

I will GENERALLY only look at the putting line from behind my ball, take a quick plumb bob to get a general idea of the break. All this time I haven't held anyone up by stomping around the green looking for 'fall lines', shadows that might indicate grain, angles from the side, humidity, barometric pressure, wind chill, etc... I pay attention to what the other putts in the group are doing on their way TO the hole and when they go past.

Good. Two points: Aside from perhaps giving your eyes an "aid" (i.e. a vertical line), plumb bobbing doesn't do anything. And you really don't understand AimPoint, particularly since you're talking about stomping around the green and "looking" for things.

Originally Posted by RayG

But if today's biggest complaint is slow play- having high handicappers spend even MORE time thinking about putting angles in addition to the swing thoughts you can see them going over in their heads every time they get over the ball, it's going to be a long day for everyone for quite some time.

I guarantee you I'm faster - and I think virtually everyone who uses AimPoint is faster after a week or so of light practice - than virtually anyone who "reads" greens the old way. And the AimPoint person is almost always more accurate.

Look, I'm not making money off sending anyone to someone else for an AimPoint seminar. Yes, we make some money on the students that come to us. But we researched AimPoint because it's the single best system out there to teach someone how to read greens. We've taught guys who have played golf as long as you have and they have their eyes opened wide. Good putters. Bad putters. Kids. Adults. They all learn something.

Kids take to it faster because it just works and they don't have a bunch of "experience" holding them back. They trust the numbers, and the numbers are right because physics is pretty much the same anywhere on earth.

And again, I cannot be clear enough about this: AimPoint is faster and more accurate than "reading the greens" the old way. Sure, you can read a putt faster than using AimPoint - you can just walk up to your ball and hit it without actually doing any reading at all, for example - but a decent AimPoint student is not only faster than someone putting in an average amount of effort to get a read, but they're more accurate too.

And worst case, on a putt with four breaks (this can take longer), a golfer can just say "I'll just read this putt" (their AimPoint training will help, though). It's not like you have to use it on every green.

If you're content with your putting, Ray, that's fine by me. :-) But I think it's a case of "you don't know what you're missing."

[saevel25]

For me i am good at reading greens. I am a sight guy, if i need directions i remember by my surroundings. I am good with imagery and seeing angles naturally. The only putts that really bug me are the ones that might be right edge only or straight, or look straight and break more than you think. Because i don't pick up on that small of a break. I usually get alot of rim outs or missed slightly on the wrong side. If the ball is outside the hole for a break, i can read the side it breaks on and how much pretty accuratelly. My problem is speed control.

But i am very interested in this AimPoint,  just to help me read putts better. I don't know if i can get the information required to use the charts. The golf courses i play at don't give out stemp numbers, and the greens can vary one week from another depending on how wet its been out. They can easily jump 2-3 stemp points in a week. Its crazy the way this course drains. But, learning to find the zero line, and other techniques would be very helpful in my view.

[Harmonious]

I'll only touch on deciphering the grain (Bermuda, mainly). Since it affects the ball most as it slows around the green, I always look at how the hole is cut.  One side of the cup will be smooth, one side will be more jagged.  The grain, therefore, runs from the smooth to the jagged side. Most of the time the grain runs downhill, but not always.  It may run crossways, and in rare cases actually runs uphill.

Hitting into or with the grain can make a big difference on distance as well. Dave Pelz says as much as 25%. A normal 40" putting stroke may only go 35' against the grain and 45' with the grain.  Chipping is also affected similarly.

[SAGolfLuvr]

WOW, I went to the AimPoint website and have watched several videos from AimPoint certified instructors on You Tube. It is unreal how there is so much to learn in this game. The instructor nearest to my location is in Austin, TX. I e-mailed him, asking for an appointment. The concepts all make sense to me. I am excited about taking my "lying eyes " out of the equation because Hole #8 at Fort Sam Houston, breaks UPHILL with a back pin location. Hopefully AimPoint will rescue me. I have had the pleasure of being a Standard Bearer for both D.A. Points (scored -6 that day at LaCantera) and Bill Glasson (scored -4 that day at Oak Hills) and wished I could putt as well as they did. Seeing them on the list of Pros that have learned and use AimPoint is very encouraging. If I am fortunate enough to get my AimPoint lesson soon I will let you know if and how it improved my putting.

[michaeljames92]

Yeah I am the same. The straight(ish) putts are the ones I don't like because you only have half a cup of error, whereas a putt you know that breaks a couple of inches you have the whole cup as a margin for error.

Originally Posted by saevel25

For me i am good at reading greens. I am a sight guy, if i need directions i remember by my surroundings. I am good with imagery and seeing angles naturally. The only putts that really bug me are the ones that might be right edge only or straight, or look straight and break more than you think. Because i don't pick up on that small of a break. I usually get alot of rim outs or missed slightly on the wrong side. If the ball is outside the hole for a break, i can read the side it breaks on and how much pretty accuratelly. My problem is speed control.

But i am very interested in this AimPoint,  just to help me read putts better. I don't know if i can get the information required to use the charts. The golf courses i play at don't give out stemp numbers, and the greens can vary one week from another depending on how wet its been out. They can easily jump 2-3 stemp points in a week. Its crazy the way this course drains. But, learning to find the zero line, and other techniques would be very helpful in my view.

[imtomtomim]

Just by researching all that I could on aimpoint and understanding their concepts, I have become a much better putter.  I'm waiting for the day that my wife gives me the ok to go ahead and take the course.  Tough to spend the money when we're both grad students!

[RayG]

iacas- all valid points- I'll give you that. I am happy with my putting..."for now". If and when I decide I need to putt differently, I'll certainly look a bit deeper into it. But as I mentioned briefly- What makes a difference is WHAT your putting on. In general- your local muni is NOT going to have the consistency needed to show that much improvement. You might get the line a bit better, but bumpy and patchy greens will kill any kind of perceived improvement. And if you follow the process to the letter and don't see any improvement because of conditions (not the instruction itself), then folks may think it was a waste of money. To improve anything needs consistency. Especially in your practice. It has been my experience that not too many courses have 'practice greens' that are in any way similar to the actual surfaces out there. You might become champion of the side bets on the practice green, but still can't 2 putt from 6 feet out while actually playing. And as a side note- sure, I've read all about 'plumb-bobbing' being totally useless- except in my case :-D. And who knows- maybe after all these years I've actually independently been using the process without even knowing it. I'll do some more poking around just to see. Maybe I can sue... for having my mind read and ideas plucked without my knowledge.;-)

[iacas]

Originally Posted by saevel25

The golf courses i play at don't give out stemp numbers, and the greens can vary one week from another depending on how wet its been out.

FWIW, you don't use the course's information (they're often way off anyway). You do it yourself. It takes about two minutes on the practice green before your round starts.

Originally Posted by michaeljames92

Yeah I am the same. The straight(ish) putts are the ones I don't like because you only have half a cup of error, whereas a putt you know that breaks a couple of inches you have the whole cup as a margin for error.

You do realize that doesn't make any sense, right? You always have +/- half a cup if you're aiming at the middle of the cup.

BTW I still hate our winky smiley. ;-) = ?

[DaSportsGuy]

It's called practice. Who the hell needs a lesson on putting? Line it up and whack it.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by DaSportsGuy

It's called practice. Who the hell needs a lesson on putting? Line it up and whack it.

What if you're having trouble deciding where to aim, how hard to whack it, and you're doing both with a putter ill suited to your natural stroke?

[jamo]

In general- your local muni is NOT going to have the consistency needed to show that much improvement.

I think it's much more worthwhile to start with something you know is right, then chalk up misses to inconsistent greens rather than starting with a guess and not knowing whether a miss was because of a bad read of inconsistency. [quote name="RayG" url="/t/54045/how-to-effectively-read-greens-what-works-best#post_657060"] For the average player who is hacking around on a Sunday morning, can you do all this in less than 20 minutes?[/quote] It really takes very little time. My AimPoint method is to walk the length of the putt to feel slope, look for a few basic shapes, and count distance, then I peek at the AimChart, and I have my read. It takes very little time. [quote name="iacas" url="/t/54045/how-to-effectively-read-greens-what-works-best#post_657106"]  BTW I still hate our winky smiley. ;-) = [IMG] /emoticons/wink.png[/IMG]? [/quote] Looks more like a constipation smiley to me. :-P

[1puttit]

I like the aimpoint stuff that I've seen on youtube and think the overall system has a lot of merit. That said I haven't gone to a clinic yet but hope to in the spring. You might want to check out the Reality of Putting video with Steve Elkington ang Geoff Mangum. Lots of good info about green reading, distance control, etc.. I got a lot out of it for the $35. http://www.therealityofputting.com/

I have no commercial interest, just a satisfied customer.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by DaSportsGuy

It's called practice. Who the hell needs a lesson on putting? Line it up and whack it.

It's not a putting lesson. It's a green reading clinic (or method).

In short, you can't "line it up" until you know where to "line it up" and AimPoint gives you that.