Reverse Sandbagging

[zeg]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

1. Top ten scores are always from home course. I dropped a lot of handicap over the last few years. My cousin plays lots of excellent course and bellows to more than one club. Whenever I play with him, I score above my handicap. He asked, "How many of your handicap scores are from your home course?" I went back and found the I rarely had a top ten score from any course other than mine. I have learned how to score at home and my handicap does not travel. My father makes ever putt on his home course. He is a below average putter everywhere else. If we play somewhere other than my home course, I'm looking like a vanity capper.

Oddly, I have had the opposite trend. I was very, very slowly improving my index by playing virtually every round at my home course, which was a fairly short, not too difficult 9-hole regulation-length course. It seemed that every time I'd go play 18 holes at some other course, I'd shoot 2-4 strokes below my index. I'd average 51-53 for 9 holes at home, but then go and shoot 93 for 18 at some other place I'd never seen before. This happened with at least 4 different courses.

I think in my case it was from being in a bit of a rut on the home course. I tended to make the same mistakes on the same holes every time, so rather than knowing how to get around them, I'd wind up getting stressed about it. No worries now, though, I've moved away so I will have to set up a new home course...

[Yukari]

I know exactly how you feel--or more accurately my brother does.  His handicap does NOT travel well at all.

I like to play different courses.  I guess I like different scenery and get tired of the same one very quickly.  You can say I have wandering eye...

But seriously, my brother plays only two or three course all the time and shoot even par once in a while and even play a couple of shots under.  His handicap is 4.  Whenever I play him on one of his courses, I cannot beat him--only rarely do I win.  (We play straight up, no handicap.  Just a macho thing).

But whenever we play a different course, I beat him almost all the time (>95%).

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

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1. Top ten scores are always from home course.

...

[inthehole]

I occasionally get teamed with a young guy at my club that won't log a score over 100 on principle - he plays to a 20 hcp (officially)  ...

[wolfsburg2]

I just had a conversation about this today. I am somewhere in the 20s and I've played with my partner today 3 or 4 times already. He keeps saying "you are better than any 20 I've ever played with" I had thought about that some and told him, "that's because there aren't many true 20 caps. Plenty of the guys you referenced in their thread. Fluffing lies, hitting 2 of the tee, gimme 3-5 footers etc. Maybe I am a great 20 something handicap compared to most. I take it as a compliment and an insult at the same time lol. I said if I wanted to make up a score I'd just call myself a scratch golfer

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by inthehole

I occasionally get teamed with a young guy at my club that won't log a score over 100 on principle - he plays to a 20 hcp (officially)  ...

Or, rather, he doesn't post a score over 100 due to a lack of principles.

[CraiginKSA]

My buddy who I play with all the time, counts EVERY stroke.  It's bad when he gets into a trap.  He putts everything out as well.  Consequently, his handicap is legitimate and travels (our home course is 133 from the white tee, 138 from the tips).  He routinely places in the top five in our monthly tournaments.  And he wins lots of prizes as a result.

I also count every stroke, but if I've lost both my tee shot and provisional, I'll take double par or stroke control myself and just keep moving.  I almost always finish in the top third in my flight (we have tournaments every month at my club).  So I have to conclude there's a lot of reverse sandbagging going on as a lot of guys can't shoot close to thier handicap.  Why not just record every stroke and turn in your score?  Even a scratch or single digit is going to have a bad round now and then.  That doesn't mean they're a bad golfer.  It means they had a bad round!

I know I'm not good right now.  But if I play a good round, I'll be rewarded in the tournament! Whereas the reverse sandbagger will always finish at the bottom and will not only be frustrated, but everyone will know he's not a 12 - just a liar or worse, a cheater.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Or, rather, he doesn't post a score over 100 due to a lack of principles.

At least he doesn't play tournaments - he only maintains his vanity-cap for his own ego...

[sflemon]

It's annoying to play in tournaments with these folks.  The 3' gimmes.  The mulligans.  Improperly following rules regarding lost balls, out of bounds, and hazards.  All of those mean these folks actually shot 100, not 90.  Then they post 90 in the club house.  And I get to play with them in a tournament.

[carpediem4300]

my official handicap is currently 20

when i play in the society though i play off 18, no idea why,...think im worried about shooting a low score and being branded a bandit or cheat,..so play off a lower handicap to sort of dispell it,..

im not bothered if people know what i play off, never affected me really,

theres lots of sandbaggers in my society though, ticks me off

[ejimsmith]

my handicap goes out the window during tournaments.  i can't handle the pressure for whatever reason.  i am an "internal" player, i play for myself, and like to compete with myself.  the pressure of a tourney, especially if i've got a partner, melts my brain.   usually starting w/ my tee shot on the first hole, and i go downhill from there.  remove the tourney, and i'm fine.

[zipazoid]

When I shot my second-straight 71 a couple of weeks back, my handicap dropped from 6.5 to 5.9 - quite a significant jump. When I told my buddy that I play with each week, he said 'Don't let it get too low...'

I was like hey, it is what it is. I post all my scores.

But I know what he meant - we're gonna play some 2-man team events this year & he doesn't want me to have too low of a handicap. So what am I to do? Purposely screw up a good round so it doesn't drop? I know my game - I don't have to do that on purpose...it happens naturally.

[divotsc]

We had a guy in our foursome that raked the sand to get a better stance before he hit out of the trap. It was ridiculous.

[clubchamp]

My favorite vanity cappers are the ones who are like a legit 12 to 14 but make themselves an 8 or 9 just to be a single digit capper. The ones that make themselves in the 1 to 5 range are just embarrassing and I will never understand it. The handicap committee at my club is pretty good about keeping an eye for vanity cappers and sandbaggers so we don't have a lot of either.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

When I shot my second-straight 71 a couple of weeks back, my handicap dropped from 6.5 to 5.9 - quite a significant jump. When I told my buddy that I play with each week, he said 'Don't let it get too low...'

I was like hey, it is what it is. I post all my scores.

But I know what he meant - we're gonna play some 2-man team events this year & he doesn't want me to have too low of a handicap. So what am I to do? Purposely screw up a good round so it doesn't drop? I know my game - I don't have to do that on purpose...it happens naturally.

Start playing a bunch of courses you've never seen before.  I bet your handicap goes up a bit.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by clubchamp

My favorite vanity cappers are the ones who are like a legit 12 to 14 but make themselves an 8 or 9 just to be a single digit capper. The ones that make themselves in the 1 to 5 range are just embarrassing and I will never understand it. The handicap committee at my club is pretty good about keeping an eye for vanity cappers and sandbaggers so we don't have a lot of either.

In college I worked in the bag room at a country club.  We held a weekly 9 hole scramble on Wednesday nights.  They were 4 man teams consisting of an A, B, C, and D player.  We had a pretty good idea who was full of it.  There were times we had A players on teams who had higher handicaps than B players on other teams.

[Putridgasbag]

I see sandbagging and vanity 'cap as a problem with the handicap system itself. Allowing/expecting people to post scores from casual rounds and allowing the calculated handicap to be used in tournaments is just plain stupid. To me a casual round with buddies is nothing like the weekly Mens tournament at the club I belong to or any other tournament with something on the line. It is I suppose why at our course we have 2 handicaps to worry about. The official sanctioned one and the Saturday one. I know that when I look at the club handicap that I am looking at one that is exclusively from rounds that matter and were played under the rules of golf. The official one not so much.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Putridgasbag

I see sandbagging and vanity 'cap as a problem with the handicap system itself. Allowing/expecting people to post scores from casual rounds and allowing the calculated handicap to be used in tournaments is just plain stupid. To me a casual round with buddies is nothing like the weekly Mens tournament at the club I belong to or any other tournament with something on the line. It is I suppose why at our course we have 2 handicaps to worry about. The official sanctioned one and the Saturday one. I know that when I look at the club handicap that I am looking at one that is exclusively from rounds that matter and were played under the rules of golf. The official one not so much.

Using only scores from competitive rounds is a good system for someone who plays a lot of them. But if you use such a system (the "Saturday" system in your example) but only compete 3 or 4 times a year, you're going to have scores used for handicapping purposes that could be up to 5 years old. One's skill level (and thus their accurate handicap) can swing quite a bit from one extreme to another during that time, depending on how much they're practicing and/or playing casual rounds.

It's difficult to come up with a perfect system - each one has their own pros and cons. But as long as each one has the provision for someone's handicap being manually adjusted for exceptional tournament/competitive scores (and I believe most if not all do), I think any system can work ok.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Putridgasbag

I see sandbagging and vanity 'cap as a problem with the handicap system itself. Allowing/expecting people to post scores from casual rounds and allowing the calculated handicap to be used in tournaments is just plain stupid. To me a casual round with buddies is nothing like the weekly Mens tournament at the club I belong to or any other tournament with something on the line. It is I suppose why at our course we have 2 handicaps to worry about. The official sanctioned one and the Saturday one. I know that when I look at the club handicap that I am looking at one that is exclusively from rounds that matter and were played under the rules of golf. The official one not so much.

I agree with this.  In bowling leagues, your average and handicap are only determined by the games you bowled in that league (or book average from previous leagues)  You can't go practice on the weekend with the house balls and go post a couple of 83's to lower your average.  That would be silly.  On the other hand ...

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Using only scores from competitive rounds is a good system for someone who plays a lot of them. But if you use such a system (the "Saturday" system in your example) but only compete 3 or 4 times a year, you're going to have scores used for handicapping purposes that could be up to 5 years old. One's skill level (and thus their accurate handicap) can swing quite a bit from one extreme to another during that time, depending on how much they're practicing and/or playing casual rounds.

It's difficult to come up with a perfect system - each one has their own pros and cons. But as long as each one has the provision for someone's handicap being manually adjusted for exceptional tournament/competitive scores (and I believe most if not all do), I think any system can work ok.

This is also very true.  Most golfers don't play competitively, yet we still like to have a handicap to compete in the occasional member-guest or charity tournament.  So it's not a perfect system, but its a good one for all the honest people out there.