Objections to Derek Ernst thanking God after his win?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

I will try to summarize my thoughts on the topic/thread.

There seems to be an extreme double standard (that IMO seems to be getting worse).  When a gay person "comes out" publicly, he is praised for his bravery, beliefs, etc..  When someone like Ernst mentions anything related to God or Jesus, they are made out as the villain.

If a gay person or gay activist wants people to accept that lifestyle, then they should certainly accept someones belief in God.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

C'mon everyone knows that "gay" is the "in" thing today, god is so 1800's.

You guys are wrong about this one.  There are several people in this thread voicing their disdain for Ernst's preachings, but there are just as many annoyed at all the gayness.  Outside of this thread, I doubt you are going to find anybody getting too bent out of shape over Ernst.

And the only reason for the praising of Collins is that the acceptance of gays is still in its infancy.  In the four major public sports, until Collins, it wasn't.  When Christians were the minority (if that was ever the case) then it would be equally brave for one of them to announce publicly that they were Christian.  Likewise, oncehomosexuality becomes accepted everywhere and stops being such a controversial issue, then if some random player comes out and announced to the world he is gay, he will probably receive the same kind of annoyed backlash that Ernst is getting (again, from a small group of people on a relatively insignificant golf website - in the grand scheme of things, I mean ;))

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

You guys are wrong about this one.  There are several people in this thread voicing their disdain for Ernst's preachings, but there are just as many annoyed at all the gayness.  Outside of this thread, I doubt you are going to find anybody getting too bent out of shape over Ernst.

And the only reason for the praising of Collins is that the acceptance of gays is still in its infancy.  In the four major public sports, until Collins, it wasn't.  When Christians were the minority (if that was ever the case) then it would be equally brave for one of them to announce publicly that they were Christian.  Likewise, oncehomosexuality becomes accepted everywhere and stops being such a controversial issue, then if some random player comes out and announced to the world he is gay, he will probably receive the same kind of annoyed backlash that Ernst is getting (again, from a small group of people on a relatively insignificant golf website - in the grand scheme of things, I mean ;))

You are I are on same page as usual Golfingdad

I have no issue with Collins or Ernst if they feel it necessary to make their sexuality or religious beliefs public, personally, I don't care about either one of them.

What I find hypocritical is that some of those applauding Collins and others for publicly stating their sexuality find Ernst thanking god after a victory to be offensive.   One would think that Collins supporters above all others would be against any form of discrimination.

[Cheners]

Originally Posted by Grist4yourMill

I think some of you are missing the point.  Derek is not thanking his Lord and Savior for allowing him to beat his opponent.  Rather, he is thanking God for giving him the ability, the calm under pressure that allowed him to play very well.  The fact that he came out with the lowest score that week really has nothing to do with how any other player performed in the tournament.

That is just sophistry, with respect. Implicit in Ernst thanking God is that God somehow influenced his performance (by, as you put it "giving him the ability, the calm under pressure that allowed him to play very well"). Given that Christians apparently believe God is omnipotent, it follows, doesn't it, that they believe that should He choose, He can influence the performance of any of us? If that is their belief, it follows, doesn't it, that when the victor thanks God, the victor believes, if he takes a moment to think about it, that God either elected not to intervene in the performances of the vanquished, or elected to intervene in a manner that deprived them of "the ability, the calm under pressure ...". As others have pointed out, the vanquished are never heard to thank God for bringing them up short, so we can reasonably infer that when Ernst, or Streelman, or Crane, or Baddeley, or countless other victors before them, have stood on the 18th green and thanked God, they are thanking Him for bringing them home with the lowest score of the week!

On a slightly different but related theme, ponder Ricky Gervais' analysis for the Wall Street Journal:

"The dictionary definition of God is “a supernatural creator and overseer of the universe.” Included in this definition are all deities, goddesses and supernatural beings. Since the beginning of recorded history, which is defined by the invention of writing by the Sumerians around 6,000 years ago, historians have cataloged over 3700 supernatural beings, of which 2870 can be considered deities.

So next time someone tells me they believe in God, I’ll say “Oh which one? Zeus? Hades? Jupiter? Mars? Odin? Thor? Krishna? Vishnu? Ra?…” If they say “Just God. I only believe in the one God,” I’ll point out that they are nearly as atheistic as me. I don’t believe in 2,870 gods, and they don’t believe in 2,869."

[14ledo81]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

You guys are wrong about this one.  There are several people in this thread voicing their disdain for Ernst's preachings, but there are just as many annoyed at all the gayness.  Outside of this thread, I doubt you are going to find anybody getting too bent out of shape over Ernst.

And the only reason for the praising of Collins is that the acceptance of gays is still in its infancy.  In the four major public sports, until Collins, it wasn't.  When Christians were the minority (if that was ever the case) then it would be equally brave for one of them to announce publicly that they were Christian.  Likewise, oncehomosexuality becomes accepted everywhere and stops being such a controversial issue, then if some random player comes out and announced to the world he is gay, he will probably receive the same kind of annoyed backlash that Ernst is getting (again, from a small group of people on a relatively insignificant golf website - in the grand scheme of things, I mean ;))

I would argue that Broussard (with his religious comments) was braver than Collins.  Again, my belief is that it seems "more acceptable" to be gay or a gay activist (making comments) than for someone to make religious comments.

ESPN puts Collins "statements" out as headline news, SI puts him on the cover of their magazine.  Broussard is villified, and his employer apoligizes for his actions.

I guess I see this as a bit of a double standard.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

I would argue that Broussard (with his religious comments) was braver than Collins.  Again, my belief is that it seems "more acceptable" to be gay or a gay activist (making comments) than for someone to make religious comments.

ESPN puts Collins "statements" out as headline news, SI puts him on the cover of their magazine.  Broussard is villified, and his employer apoligizes for his actions.

I guess I see this as a bit of a double standard.

Yes, but you're getting into a grey area here.  Broussard's comments weren't simply "Praise God, I'm a Christian, it's awesome, you should be too!"  Derek Ernst's were.  (Full disclosure:  I never heard what he said, just assume it was the standard thanks to God)  Broussard was voicing his opposition to Collins being gay, and claiming Christianity as the reason why its OK for him to have those beliefs.  Those two are very different things.

Broussard deserved to be villified - didn't his mom ever tell him that if you can't say something nice about somebody then you shouldn't say something at all?  Ernst does not ... other than perhaps a roll of the eyes.

Arguing that being gay is more acceptable these days than being Christian holds about the same amount of water as the "war on Christmas" arguments.  (Which is to say, none.)  Heaven forbid, somebody changed the name of their Christmas parade to a Holiday parade to try and be more inclusive and welcoming to everybody.

[14ledo81]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yes, but you're getting into a grey area here.  Broussard's comments weren't simply "Praise God, I'm a Christian, it's awesome, you should be too!"  Derek Ernst's were.  (Full disclosure:  I never heard what he said, just assume it was the standard thanks to God)  Broussard was voicing his opposition to Collins being gay, and claiming Christianity as the reason why its OK for him to have those beliefs.  Those two are very different things.

Broussard deserved to be villified - didn't his mom ever tell him that if you can't say something nice about somebody then you shouldn't say something at all?  Ernst does not ... other than perhaps a roll of the eyes.

Arguing that being gay is more acceptable these days than being Christian holds about the same amount of water as the "war on Christmas" arguments.  (Which is to say, none.)  Heaven forbid, somebody changed the name of their Christmas parade to a Holiday parade to try and be more inclusive and welcoming to everybody.

I don't neccesarily feel that what Broussard said was not nice.  If an atheist told me, that because of my beliefs and lifestyle, I could not be considered an Atheist, I would not take offense.

If Jason Collins claims the Christian faith and Broussards comments could be taken as discluding him, I could see how you could feel they were not nice.  The thing is, as fellow Christians, we have an obligation to rebuke sin when it is seen.  If Jason Collins did not feel the homosexual lifestyle was a sin, then his faith is obviously different than Broussards, and he would not want to be included anyway.

[bplewis24]

Who cares if he thanks God?  He can thank anybody he wants to, regardless of whether they have anything to do with his win or not.  It sounds pretty stupid at times, so maybe it warrants a laugh.  But It shouldn't really bend anybody out of shape.

[ApocG10]

I am athiest, but I don't believe he was insinuating 'God' won the golf tournament for him. Moreso, its him thanking god for blessing him with such a fantastic life, and for giving him such an awesome chance to improve his carreer.

Personally, i'd want to thank my family and coaches, the people who nourished natural talent and let it grow into a tournament winning golfer. But like I said, i'm athiest.

As for Collins and Broussard, that is a whole other story. Both were ridiculous. There didn't need to be an SI cover story for collins, and no need for Broussard to have to comment. Seems to me that both were just looking for publicity.

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

Moreso, its him thanking god for blessing him with such a fantastic life, and for giving him such an awesome chance to improve his career.

Agree 100% with your assessment.

For non-believers to ask him to filter his comments because they don't believe - well, that's not going to happen.....

[Cheners]

[quote name="ApocG10" url="/t/66769/objections-to-derek-ernst-thanking-god-after-his-win/150#post_841928"]I am athiest, but I don't believe he was insinuating 'God' won the golf tournament for him. Moreso, its him thanking god for blessing him with such a fantastic life, and for giving him such an awesome chance to improve his carreer. Curious, then, that it is always the Christian victor who chooses the moment of the victory speech to give public thanks to God. if the purpose is only to thank Him for giving him "such a fantastic life" (and it is not to thank him for letting him win), why do we never hear the many losing Christian golfers when interviewed say anything like "Yeah, Bob, I've missed the cut, and my game is all over the place, but I want to thank my Lord and Saviour for giving me a fantastic life"? To suggest the victor is not attributing his win to God is nonsense - it is exactly what they are doing, and it is exactly what they want the TV viewersmto believe. It is proselytizing, to a huge TV audience.

[Cheners]

Curious, then, that it is always the Christian victor who chooses the moment of the victory speech to give public thanks to God. if the purpose is only to thank Him for giving him "such a fantastic life" (and it is not to thank him for letting him win), why do we never hear the many losing Christian golfers when interviewed say anything like "Yeah, Bob, I've missed the cut, and my game is all over the place, but I want to thank my Lord and Saviour for giving me a fantastic life"? To suggest the victor is not attributing his win to God is nonsense - it is exactly what they are doing, and it is exactly what they want the TV viewers to believe. It is proselytizing, to a huge TV audience.

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by Cheners

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApocG10

I am athiest, but I don't believe he was insinuating 'God' won the golf tournament for him. Moreso, its him thanking god for blessing him with such a fantastic life, and for giving him such an awesome chance to improve his carreer.

Curious, then, that it is always the Christian victor who chooses the moment of the victory speech to give public thanks to God. if the purpose is only to thank Him for giving him "such a fantastic life" (and it is not to thank him for letting him win), why do we never hear the many losing Christian golfers when interviewed say anything like "Yeah, Bob, I've missed the cut, and my game is all over the place, but I want to thank my Lord and Saviour for giving me a fantastic life"?

To suggest the victor is not attributing his win to God is nonsense - it is exactly what they are doing, and it is exactly what they want the TV viewersmto believe. It is proselytizing, to a huge TV audience.

No, no it isn't. Its a man thanking a fictional being that he believes in for a good break. No need to have a hissy fit because he believes differently than you do, he can thank god, allah, joheova, or the Blessed  Mary's holy virgin arsehole. That is totally up to him, and its nothing more than affirming his beliefs. When he shows up at you're door with a handfull of magazines, then It's proselytizing. Until then, its a quick phrase shared by someone who holds a firm belief in the sky wizard.

[jetsknicks1]

Curious, then, that it is always the Christian victor who chooses the moment of the victory speech to give public thanks to God. if the purpose is only to thank Him for giving him "such a fantastic life" (and it is not to thank him for letting him win), why do we never hear the many losing Christian golfers when interviewed say anything like "Yeah, Bob, I've missed the cut, and my game is all over the place, but I want to thank my Lord and Saviour for giving me a fantastic life"? To suggest the victor is not attributing his win to God is nonsense - it is exactly what they are doing, and it is exactly what they want the TV viewers to believe. It is proselytizing, to a huge TV audience.

I've always found this "Proselytzing" (sp) argument to be fairly ridiculous. The definition of the word is to induce or recruit others to join your faith. Exactly how does somebody thanking God equate to that? He never said "I want to thank God and ask everybody listening to join my faith"

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

No, no it isn't. Its a man thanking a fictional being that he believes in for a good break. No need to have a hissy fit because he believes differently than you do, he can thank god, allah, joheova, or the Blessed  Mary's holy virgin arsehole. That is totally up to him, and its nothing more than affirming his beliefs. When he shows up at you're door with a handfull of magazines, then It's proselytizing. Until then, its a quick phrase shared by someone who holds a firm belief in the sky wizard.

I believe this belongs in the "backhanded compliment" hall of fame. ;)  I realize it's not actually a compliment, but simultaneously defending the guy and making fun of his religion fits in there somewhere. :)

Originally Posted by jetsknicks1

I've always found this "Proselytzing" (sp) to be fairly ridiculous. The definition of the word is to induce or recruit others to loin your faith. Exactly how does somebody thanking God equate to that?

I think it's mainly because when we say "proselytizing" online, we say it correctly.  Proselytizing.  See I did it again.  Now, if you ask me to actually say it aloud, there's no chance in hell I can get it right the first, nor probably the second, time.  "Proselt ... prolse ... prolest ... prozelitiz ... eff it ... preaching"

I agree with you though.  Dude's giving a few thanks to some people he feels deserve it.  So what?  How much do most guys wives really help with their golf swing?  Yet, nobody is going to bat an eye if/when they thank them.

Actual

[jamo]

I believe this belongs in the "backhanded compliment" hall of fame. ;)  I realize it's not actually a compliment, but simultaneously defending the guy and making fun of his religion fits in there somewhere. :)

"Complisult - half compliment, half insult. See what I did there? That's an explanibrag"

[newtogolf]

Word of advice for all the Ernst haters, don't ever watch a Country Music Awards show or NASCAR.

[Rick Martin]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Word of advice for all the Ernst haters, don't ever watch a Country Music Awards show or NASCAR.

NFL, NBA, MLB, USTA, WNBA, NHL, MMA, PBA.......either

[Golfingdad]

..... PBA......

Also should warn the "Jason Collins haters" about the pba as well ... [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAWPy_dhZ34[/URL]