Who can defend Sergio?

[tomvk77]

I just think it's brave off Sergio to take on the flag at 17. He earns allot of money and he's only trying to win tournaments. you just got to take in on at that stage off the game.

I'm not a hater, altho i don't like to see him loose his temper. Spitting in the cup is just something you don't do. also trying to dig a bunker deeper is not done.

I also see a lot off haters on Tiger here, all based on actions off the course. What Sergio does off the course i don't give a damn, i just like to see him play and do well.

And if i hit a bad shot i can get angry with myself too.

[Paradox]

Sergio wasn't "challenging" the flag, though.  He was playing left of the flag and hoping to use the slope to bring the ball back down to the hole and hitting a fade.

Its not as if he hit the green and the ball took a hard bounce off into the water.  He came up WELL short of any reasonable target.  He had a PW in his hand..it wasn't as if he was trying to muscle a gap wedge or sand wedge to the hole.  What else can you call it besides choking when a pro hits a pitching wedge 125 yards?

[saevel25]

From his swing, i am guess, but he looked like he eased up on it, and blocked it a bit right, and it came up short. The 2nd shot he was going for the flag, because he had to hole out to have a chance on 18. When that went in, he put the ball over the bunker with a good shot.

[jamo]

  luu5 said:

What if they changed Players status to (The Fifth) Major, would that be odd.

Then Tiger would be five back of Jack. :-(

[Ernest Jones]

  jamo said:

Originally Posted by jamo

Then Tiger would be five back of Jack.

He'd be 5 back no?

[Ernest Jones]

  jamo said:

Originally Posted by jamo

Then Tiger would be five back of Jack.

  Ernest Jones said:

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

He'd be 5 back no?

LOL, that was weird, threw me for a loop.

[zipazoid]

  Chas said:

Originally Posted by Chas

So what? Quoting Nicklaus is bringing nothing meaningful to the discussion of Sergio as a golfer.

Then all I can say is you totally missed my point.

Actually, I can say a lot more. But I think it would be lost on you if you can't see my initial point.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

Well, with the news today that the marshalls concerned are telling a different story than Woods told, many of the premises in this thread are moot. Converts Sergio from a whiner into an aggrieved party.

[Ernest Jones]

  Ole_Tom_Morris said:

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

Well, with the news today that the marshalls concerned are telling a different story than Woods told, many of the premises in this thread are moot. Converts Sergio from a whiner into an aggrieved party.

From what I understand there are actually 4 marshals telling 2 conflicting versions of the story. In any case, the best Sergio could hope for is to be converted to an aggrieved whiner because at the end of the day.... Quote:

  Kieran123 said:

SERGIO HAD TIME TO BACK OFF AND COLLECT HIMSELF BEFORE HITTING THE SHOT

Bold, underlined, size 72 in red ink.

[MSchott]

  Ole_Tom_Morris said:

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

Well, with the news today that the marshalls concerned are telling a different story than Woods told, many of the premises in this thread are moot. Converts Sergio from a whiner into an aggrieved party.

Uh, there's a story today that other marshal's are confirming what Woods said. Let's understand something about marshal's. These are local volunteers and not trained officials. Take what they say with a grain of salt as they are not held accountable for what they say.

[boogielicious]

  Ole_Tom_Morris said:

Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris

Well, with the news today that the marshalls concerned are telling a different story than Woods told, many of the premises in this thread are moot. Converts Sergio from a whiner into an aggrieved party.

Day late and a dollar short.  Other marshals confirmed Woods.  Sergio is back to whiner.

[iacas]

  saevel25 said:

Originally Posted by saevel25

There was a great article on ESPN about this. Were baseball players talk about the sounds they like, dislike, being in the zone. A lot of them say its like the kevin kosner movie were he pitched a perfect game, were the crowd just fades away.

As for Sergio and the noise that is his problem, i get that, but still Tiger has to realize the presence he creates on the course. Just the fact he lied about the Marshall telling him Sergio was done hitting, shows that he knew he did something wrong and didn't want to admit to it. He doesn't like to show weakness of any form. Usually he's clean cut on the golf course, usually he doesn't answer questions were it would be damning to him. But this time he did, he lied, and it shows he knows he messed up. He didn't call Sergio's BS, he deflected. When you deflect, there's an underlying base of knowing you did something wrong. All he had to do was say, "I can't control what the crowd does", or "I didn't know the crowd would react that way to me choosing a club to hit. Next time i will be more aware." That would have been acceptable, and logically sound to basically mean Sergio needs to get a thicker skin, but he didn't do that. He deflected. I'm not saying Sergio is right, he has a clear problem with pressure, the crowd, Tiger's presence overall. But, Tiger also knows that in the game of golf, its a gentlemen's game. Jack Nicholas calmed a crowd for Tom Watson, Tiger woods deflected a remarks by lying about it.

The problem is your entire point is predicated upon "Tiger lied." So since it turns out he likely didn't …

  Chas said:

Originally Posted by Chas

Are you seriously suggesting that Sergio wasn't trying to win?

He wouldn't be the first guy in the world to sabotage himself.

[zipazoid]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

He wouldn't be the first guy in the world to sabotage himself.

See Baird, Briny.

Or for that matter, Jeff Maggert. Some guys just don't have the insides for it.

Let's put it this way. Explain why Sergio hasn't won a major yet. It's not like they've been snatched from him. He's been in position a number of times but just has not been able to close it out. That takes balls. Sergio doesn't have balls. He has excuses. I'm sure, in his mind, the reason he didn't win The Players is cuz Tiger's crowd made noise on the second hole on Saturday while he was contemplating hitting a shot.

Winners don't make excuses.

Look at that vid of Tiger when he hit his drive on 18, right after Sergio rinsed two balls on 17. He knew the opening Sergio gave him, knew he had to striped one down 18...and when he did, he said f**k yeah. He was given the opening & he grabbed it by the throat.

[Chas]

Some of those on this thread seem to have forgotten that Sergio WON the event in 2008. Since then he's had a rough period it's true but lately he's been back on form. The guy is looking very confident these days, if petulant at times as seems to be his wont. Silly discussion. As to many in Tiger's camp on the course on Sunday - what a disgrace to themselves. Truly pathetic, and indefensible. Tiger does not deserve idiots like them.

[iacas]

  Chas said:

Originally Posted by Chas

Some of those on this thread seem to have forgotten that Sergio WON the event in 2008.

Against Paul Goydos. Ho hum.

You've not demonstrated how Sergio doesn't sabotage himself against top players and/or in top events. There's a LOT more evidence to the contrary than your "he beat Paul Goydos once, after Paul dunked it first" example.

And Chas, Multi-Quote please. We've asked before.

[Golfingdad]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Against Paul Goydos. Ho hum.

The Players was a match play event in '08?  I didn't realize that.

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

You've not demonstrated how Sergio doesn't sabotage himself against top players and/or in top events. There's a LOT more evidence to the contrary than your "he beat Paul Goydos once, after Paul dunked it first" example.

When I was a junior and senior in high school, I was a part of a very talented varsity baseball team.  Our main league rivals were ranked #1 in the nation the previous year (yes, national rankings in high school are silly, but the point is they were good) yet we were at least their equals, talent-wise.  Each time we played, we outplayed them for 4 or 5 innings, then found some way to lose the game in the end.  Our coach didn't ever call it sabotage, but he did tell us that he believed our problem was entirely mental.  When we had the lead on a team we were supposed to lose to, we were out of our comfort zone.  It didn't feel right, so we found ways to lose.  It's obviously not intentional - we desperately wanted to win every time - but I think his assessment was right.

I feel this way about my own golf game occasionally; when I start off really well, I sometimes have to fight off the urge to start wondering when the wheels are going to come off and I'm going to get back to playing 8 handicap golf.  It's going to be awfully hard to get a lot better as long as I don't truly believe that I am capable of shooting great scores.

Point is, while the idea that somebody would sabotage themselves may look silly on paper, I believe that its a totally plausible and realistic premise.

[iacas]

  Golfingdad said:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

The Players was a match play event in '08?  I didn't realize that.

Didn't say it was.

Paul Goydos ain't Tiger Woods though.

You know both of those things…

  Golfingdad said:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Point is, while the idea that somebody would sabotage themselves may look silly on paper, I believe that its a totally plausible and realistic premise.

Psychologists would agree.

[Golfingdad]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Didn't say it was.

Paul Goydos ain't Tiger Woods though.

You know both of those things…

Yes I do ... was just yanking your chain though. ;)

I will say, though, that I believe that sort of mentality is overcome-able (not so sure thats a word, but you know what I mean).  A little bit of confidence, a couple of breaks here or there to allow you to shoot that low score once, and then you realize you can do it.  In the case of pro golfers, I believe its the same as when announcers talk about them needing to "learn how to win."  Once they do that, who knows how far they can go.

Come on, Serg ... not many others are, but I'm still pulling for ya!! ;)