If you could change ONE rule, what would it be?

[Lihu]

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, unplayable doesn't need to be obvious to anyone other than the player declaring it so provided they take the associated penalty. My understanding is that I can declare a perfect lie "unplayable" if I so desire.

Yes, as it is currently written, but I would revise it such that it must be obviously so . Not just to the player.

[Golfingdad]

In my experience, more than 50% of the bogey golfers liberally use "GUR" and foot wedges to kick their balls out of divots and avoid hitting off dirt. They justify the movement in line with the "unplayable" rule***, even though they don't usually take an extra stroke.

If this rule did not exist, they would not have this "crutch" to back them up when they pull out the old foot wedge as if they are still "partially" following the rules.

My feeling is that "unplayable" should be obviously so. {Of course this is only my opinion, but the thread does ask for it.}

***Even worse is "Winter rules". http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-07/

I feel like you are conflating the "unplayable" rule with cheating.  The unplayable lie rule comes with a penalty stroke.  It's not a "crutch."  And you can't "liberally" use GUR ... something is either marked as ground under repair (or defined as such) or not.  And foot wedges ... well, I don't know why you are talking about foot wedges in this thread because that's not remotely related to any rules.

[Lihu]

I feel like you are conflating the "unplayable" rule with cheating.  The unplayable lie rule comes with a penalty stroke.  It's not a "crutch."  And you can't "liberally" use GUR ... something is either marked as ground under repair (or defined as such) or not.  And foot wedges ... well, I don't know why you are talking about foot wedges in this thread because that's not remotely related to any rules.

While I agree that I might just be hinting just a tiny bit at this, the fact is if no one has this rule to lean on, they can't even state that they are "partially" following the rules even in their own minds.

This is where the foot wedges come into play. When someone can justify even to a partial degree that they are following some rule, they tend to be as liberal about it as possible. This is human nature.

If the rule was hard and fast that it must be obviously unplayable, and GUR must be marked as such then there is no question what one must do.

[iacas]

In my experience, more than 50% of the bogey golfers liberally use "GUR" and foot wedges to kick their balls out of divots and avoid hitting off dirt. They justify the movement in line with the "unplayable" rule***, even though they don't usually take an extra stroke.

If this rule did not exist, they would not have this "crutch" to back them up when they pull out the old foot wedge as if they are still "partially" following the rules.

My feeling is that "unplayable" should be obviously so. {Of course this is only my opinion, but the thread does ask for it.}

***Even worse is "Winter rules". http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-07/

@Lihu , please put down the crack pipe or soldering iron or whatever it is you've been inhaling lately.

They're not following the "unplayable ball" rule.

A player can move their ball (two clublengths, on a line back, or re-play it from the tee) virtually any time they want (not when it's OB, of course, or when it's in a water hazard) by declaring their ball unplayable under penalty of one stroke.

Players employing a foot wedge or declaring on their own that a divot is GUR (it is not), are not following the Rules of Golf, let alone the specific rule regarding "Unplayable" balls.

It has its own entire Rule: http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-28/

Saying that you think the Unplayable rule needs to be changed because people are breaking OTHER rules is silly.

While I agree that I might just be hinting just a tiny bit at this, the fact is if no one has this rule to lean on, they can't even state that they are "partially" following the rules even in their own minds.

Please explain to the court how someone kicking their ball out from behind a tree is "partially" following a rule? Because it seems to me it's like being "partially" pregnant.

They're not "partially" following any rule. They're violating the Rules of Golf.

This is where the foot wedges come into play. When someone can justify even to a partial degree that they are following some rule, they tend to be as liberal about it as possible. This is human nature.

They are not following any rule to a "partial degree."

If the rule was hard and fast that it must be obviously unplayable, and GUR must be marked as such then there is no question what one must do.

The Rule is perfectly hard and fast.

1) The player declares his ball unplayable. UNDER PENALTY OF ONE STROKE, he has three options (unless he's in a bunker).

2) GUR DOES need to be marked (or, without getting too far into it, be "piled for removal" or whatever). Players can't just make it up as they go that "oh, this area, definitely GUR here…".

---

Please consider what you're saying, because you're not making any sense right now.

[Lihu]

@Lihu, please put down the crack pipe or soldering iron or whatever it is you've been inhaling lately.

They're not following the "unplayable ball" rule.

A player can move their ball (two clublengths, on a line back, or re-play it from the tee) virtually any time they want (not when it's OB, of course, or when it's in a water hazard) by declaring their ball unplayable under penalty of one stroke.

Players employing a foot wedge or declaring on their own that a divot is GUR (it is not), are not following the Rules of Golf, let alone the specific rule regarding "Unplayable" balls.

It has its own entire Rule: http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-28/

Saying that you think the Unplayable rule needs to be changed because people are breaking OTHER rules is silly.

The only reason why I bring it up is that these rules are often quoted by the people doing it (although incorrectly, which is also obvious to me, BTW). Either that or the GUR, and "Preferred lies" rules as well.

You're right that they are not following the rules, but I have seen these rules misquoted and misused (no strokes taken) many times during a round.

[iacas]

You're right that they are not following the rules, but I have seen these rules misquoted and misused (no strokes taken) many times during a round.

So your justification for changing some rules is that people don't follow them now ?

C'mon man.

I can't even think of a good analogy because this strikes me as so far out there I can't comprehend such a situation. It's just that silly.

[Lihu]

So your justification for changing some rules is that people don't follow them now?

C'mon man.

I can't even think of a good analogy because this strikes me as so far out there I can't comprehend such a situation. It's just that silly.

Quite a few 50% of the people I play rounds with in the mornings do this.

So, my opinion is that if these rules did not exist, they could not quote them as they cheat.

If anything, the fact that so many people do it is silly.

[mvmac]

Quite a few 50% of the people I play rounds with in the mornings do this.

So, my opinion is that if these rules did not exist, they could not quote them as they cheat.

If anything, the fact that so many people do it is silly.

That seems odd. I've never played with someone that took an unplayable without a penalty. That would be cheating

There isn't any problem with the rule, if players don't want to play by the Rules of Golf, that's fine.

[iacas]

So, my opinion is that if these rules did not exist, they could not quote them as they cheat.

Do you read what you are writing?

[Lihu]

That seems odd. I've never played with someone that took an unplayable without a penalty. That would be cheating

There isn't any problem with the rule, if players don't want to play by the Rules of Golf, that's fine.

The name itself implies that there is something about the condition of the ball where no one of normal playing ability can play it. The removal of the "self declaration" part seems reasonable to me, but I guess not to other people. Maybe there can be two tiers, self declaration is 2 strokes and a consensus declaration 1 stroke? Or something like that?

[iacas]

@Lihu , please do yourself the favor of quitting while you're behind. Seriously. You're not making compelling arguments even when your posts make sense.

[turtleback]

I think he's talking about people like me. You know, you're behind a tree right near the green, have no shot at the green, and the only way you have to get to the green is to hit a knockout back out to the middle of a very narrow approach fairway that runs the risk if you flub it of going into the very long rough on the other side into a mess of other trees? OR you could simply call your ball "unplayable" under the rules, take a one stroke penalty, mark your two club lengths, drop the ball, and hit a chip shot to go up and down for your bogey.

Did a couple of people scream when I did this. It is in the rules that only the player can call their ball unplayable, and I did take my one stroke penalty.

There is not a thing wrong with what you did and this most decidedly is NOT an abuse of the unplayable lie rule.  Lihu's temporary psychotic break has clouded the issue since he is conflating declaring an unplayable with cheating y moving your ball.  What you did is not only fine, it is why there is an unplayable lie rule.  Now if you just kicked your ball out and didn't take a stroke then that would be wrong  But you said you took the stroke and that is exactly what the rules call for.

The rule says, in relevant part:  The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course , except when the ball is in a water hazard."

No qualifiers at all.  Your ball could be sitting on the green an inch away from the hole and you can declare it unplayable.  You would be crazy to do so but the rules would allow it.

[Lihu]

There is not a thing wrong with what you did and this most decidedly is NOT an abuse of the unplayable lie rule.  Lihu's temporary psychotic break has clouded the issue since he is conflating declaring an unplayable with cheating y moving your ball.  What you did is not only fine, it is why there is an unplayable lie rule.  Now if you just kicked your ball out and didn't take a stroke then that would be wrong  But you said you took the stroke and that is exactly what the rules call for.

The rule says, in relevant part:  The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course, except when the ball is in a water hazard."

No qualifiers at all.  Your ball could be sitting on the green an inch away from the hole and you can declare it unplayable.  You would be crazy to do so but the rules would allow it.

Okay, I stand guilty as charged.

I hope no one took offense, I was just ranting more about the daily cheating I see.

[joekelly]

Must i be near my ball, inspecting the lie and conditions, to call the unplayable card?  If from the tee box and i'm disgusted with my drive, not OB or water or lost, can i take another drive after declaring 'unplayable'?

[14ledo81]

[QUOTE name="turtleback" url="/t/7089/if-you-could-change-one-rule-what-would-it-be/378#post_1072033"]   There is not a thing wrong with what you did and this most decidedly is NOT an abuse of the unplayable lie rule. Lihu's temporary psychotic break has clouded the issue since he is conflating declaring an unplayable with cheating y moving your ball. What you did is not only fine, it is why there is an unplayable lie rule.  Now if you just kicked your ball out and didn't take a stroke then that would be wrong  But you said you took the stroke and that is exactly what the rules call for. The rule says, in relevant part:  The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course , except when the ball is in a water hazard." No qualifiers at all.  Your ball could be sitting on the green an inch away from the hole and you can declare it unplayable.  You would be crazy to do so but the rules would allow it. [/QUOTE] Okay, I stand guilty as charged. :surrender: I hope no one took offense, I was just ranting more about the daily cheating I see. :-X

I doubt any took offense. I even kind of followed your line of thinking a little bit. :)

[Lihu]

I doubt any took offense.

I even kind of followed your line of thinking a little bit. :)

Ranting is contagious.

[Asheville]

Must i be near my ball, inspecting the lie and conditions, to call the unplayable card?  If from the tee box and i'm disgusted with my drive, not OB or water or lost, can i take another drive after declaring 'unplayable'?

In a sense, yes, you may declare your drive unplayable. However, the declaration is unnecessary, since a player may, at any time and anywhere on the golf course, replay a shot and take a one stroke penalty. Rule 27-1 gives you that authority.

[iacas]

Must i be near my ball, inspecting the lie and conditions, to call the unplayable card?  If from the tee box and i'm disgusted with my drive, not OB or water or lost, can i take another drive after declaring 'unplayable'?

Yeah.