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Cartboy

Pace Problem

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29 minutes ago, Mr22putt said:

1) Played them all.....I really like all the Bellingham courses....my least fav is NBGC....kinda boring but has the best winter conditions...Bellingham is a golf mecca......what??....no love for Homestead, Semiahmoo or Loomis Trail?

Semiahmoo is a dark horse resort that goes under the radar.....good for corporate shindigs too.

2) I might be Canadian but I'm no gentleman....you'd remember me if we played golf....I'm a Chinese POSER.🤣

I forgot Homestead, Loomis Trail and Semiahmoo.  I won't play Semiahmoo any longer, with so many homes lining all the fairways it feels like I'm playing golf in someone's backyard.  It was a great course when they first opened, designed by Arnold Palmer.  In fact, he was there to open and play the first round at the course.

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5 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Or, like getting behind a slow driver:  The sooner you need to get home or get to your girlfriend's house or a doctor's appointment or the store or start the barbecue, the longer the round.

Murphy's golf law, lol.

 

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1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I forgot Homestead, Loomis Trail and Semiahmoo.  I won't play Semiahmoo any longer, with so many homes lining all the fairways it feels like I'm playing golf in someone's backyard.  It was a great course when they first opened, designed by Arnold Palmer.  In fact, he was there to open and play the first round at the course.

Got a 2 for 1 coupon for Semiahmoo a few years ago....so it was a no brainer to go play.

Yes, there is housing but IMO...it's not too encroaching.....still a fairly solid track.

Only played Loomis once....hazard filled....but that's ok...I like a challenge.

Homestead is ok as it's the best value for we Canucks....good twilight rates, closet to our border and takes Cdn $ at par...so it's a good value.

I don't have Nexus...so it's a bit of a pain to travel across the border nowadays....but good for a road trip too...the $ savings on a full gas tank can pay for a return trip gas cost.

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2 hours ago, Mr22putt said:

If you watched them take 1+ minutes each over their 2 ft putts....you'd be yelling at them too.😝

I yell at anyone that takes over 40 seconds for any shot, so yes. I don't actually yell. Just internally.

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19 minutes ago, Mr22putt said:

Got a 2 for 1 coupon for Semiahmoo a few years ago....so it was a no brainer to go play.

Yes, there is housing but IMO...it's not too encroaching.....still a fairly solid track.

Only played Loomis once....hazard filled....but that's ok...I like a challenge.

Homestead is ok

I like Semi. Homes don’t encroach that much. Loomis is more like the courses I grew up playing in the mid west. Haven’t played Homestead in a long time. Been meaning to go back sometime. Bellingham G&CC is nice. Few weird holes, but mostly a good layout and fun course. 
 

Back to topic, I do hate those that stand over the ball forever contemplating life before hitting the ball. Those people are rare. More commonly are those that try hard to play well but hit a lot of bad shots and try to restart after each one. 

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On 10/20/2019 at 8:33 AM, Cartboy said:

Slow pace at our course is mostly because of playing too long of tees.

Slow play is caused by slow players regardless of tees.

On 11/4/2019 at 9:33 AM, ghalfaire said:

Having said that I do know of courses that insist on a pace of play that leads to a round of not more than 4 hours 30 minutes. 

I know it's been said already, but 4:30 is a death slog and shouldn't be a goal.

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I read many of the posts since my last one where I stated a couple of courses I know will remove slow foursomes if they don't keep up.  I don't really agree with that as a universal policy as it wouldn't work in many places. 

However what I believe is important to help control slow play is that:

1. the course have a policy on pace of play;

2. Player know what the policy is before they tee off;

3. The policy is consistently enforced, whatever it is.

Certainly the policy should be reasonable and consistent with the course difficulty and clientele.  So while there is no perfect solution I suspect, at least if all courses had a known policy on pace of play, everyone would know what is expected of them before they made the tee time.

 

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On 11/6/2019 at 6:31 PM, Double Mocha Man said:

Cartboy... I've been reading your posts over the last couple of months.  You seem like you really know what you're doing.  And that you like your job. You have claimed ownership of your position.  Great attitude.  You will always do well.

Wow!  Thanks!

I've been on Internet forum for 20 years, and I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone actually compliment someone for their comments.

So, kudos to you.

😁

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Speaking of 4:30 POP, if someone plays in five hours, that is fast, and if someone plays in three hours, that is slow.

When you have had to deal with 6 hour rounds, 4:30 seems like a reasonable compromise.

When I'm marshaling, it is not "recommended", it is the maximum allowed (in my  mind).

😁

In our case, there is some rhyme and reason to 4:30, but you'll have to follow me . . . . 

Each of our first four sets of four holes has a par 3, a Par 5, and two Par 4s.  Bobby Clampett consulted on the course design, and the Par 3 are paced at 12 minutes, the Par 4s at 15 minutes, and the Par 5s at 18 minutes.  Figure that out and you will see the each set of four holes in 1 hour.  17 & 18 are Par 4s, so that's another 1/2 hour, and, Wallah!, 4:30.

(PS:  I'm then only one left of the early employees who knows that.)

It's really easy to marshal when you get that four-holes-an-hour ingrained in your brain, but it's amazing how many brains are not ingrainable.

BTW, unless I'm really have a good round, if I'm stuck in a 4:30 round, I normally go in.  One day this year on the tenth tee I looked at the other guys and said, "Looks like rain.  Bye."  I'm sure it rained somewhere that day.

How many of you have marshaled a tough course on a busy day?

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Playing with my Association a lot of weeks this year must have spoiled me. I wasn't willing to deal with the 2:30 it took to play nine holes behind two yahoos.

I actually talked to this pair on the putting green and they said they were in a "rush", so I joined up with this other pair right behind them. It actually wasn't that bad for the first few holes. Then, all of a sudden, they are in one of the drained-out water hazards looking for balls. All that effort must have exhausted them because that pair slowed up substantially after that. A foursome that had been in front of the pair opened up two, then three, then four holes on the pair of snails, but my threesome had nowhere to go. Without even looking over their shoulders at us on the tee, the pair clambered into yet another hazard to grab some balls.   

We finally putted out on nine and I headed straight to the car.

Damn shame since it was so nice out and the temperature just dropped 20 degrees this afternoon.

 

 

Edited by mcanadiens

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I find it incredible that 4h 30mins is considered acceptable for amateur golfers, and even worse recreational amateur golfers. In my view the pace of walking has only a minor impact on POP. The problem is a lack of education, etiquette and experience. If you are so slow as to take six hours to play 18, well I am not bothered as long as I get let through at the first opportunity. Failure to do so is poor etiquette, and plain rude. There should be no need to involve marshalls, just a timely offer to play through. Don't let me through and I'm putting the foot down and getting on the next tee before you have left and then I AM playing through...I have had to ask maybe 25 times(all retired guys who have no time pressure in their day) and have always been let through, even if there was some dark looks and occasionally a grumble.

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9 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Playing with my Association a lot of weeks this year must have spoiled me. I wasn't willing to deal with the 2:30 it took to play nine holes behind two yahoos.

I actually talked to this pair on the putting green and they said they were in a "rush", so I joined up with this other pair right behind them. It actually wasn't that bad for the first few holes. Then, all of a sudden, they are in one of the drained-out water hazards looking for balls. All that effort must have exhausted them because that pair slowed up substantially after that. A foursome that had been in front of the pair opened up two, then three, then four holes on the pair of snails, but my threesome had nowhere to go. Without even looking over their shoulders at us on the tee, the pair clambered into yet another hazard to grab some balls.   

We finally putted out on nine and I headed straight to the car.

Damn shame since it was so nice out and the temperature just dropped 20 degrees this afternoon.

 

 

"Pair of snails"... that was a great visual you provided... I can just picture them.  Too bad you didn't get to ask them what their "rush" was.  Possibly they were in a hurry to get in line at Walmart for the Black Friday sale.

"Without even looking over their shoulders at us on the tee, the pair clambered into yet another hazard to grab some balls."  The starter on the first tee should hand out rear view mirrors to everyone.  Seriously.

Edited by Double Mocha Man
Increased my verbosity

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7 minutes ago, Beastie said:

I find it incredible that 4h 30mins is considered acceptable for amateur golfers, and even worse recreational amateur golfers. In my view the pace of walking has only a minor impact on POP. The problem is a lack of education, etiquette and experience. If you are so slow as to take six hours to play 18, well I am not bothered as long as I get let through at the first opportunity. Failure to do so is poor etiquette, and plain rude. There should be no need to involve marshalls, just a timely offer to play through. Don't let me through and I'm putting the foot down and getting on the next tee before you have left and then I AM playing through...I have had to ask maybe 25 times(all retired guys who have no time pressure in their day) and have always been let through, even if there was some dark looks and occasionally a grumble.

I have noticed that the slow group in front of me is always fast off the next tee just as I approach them to ask if I might play through.  Then they once again slow down to a slug's pace.  Not unlike those folks downtown who are super slow in the crosswalk to keep you waiting, but then speed up their pace as soon as they hit the curb.  Ugh.

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8 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I have noticed that the slow group in front of me is always fast off the next tee just as I approach them to ask if I might play through.  Then they once again slow down to a slug's pace.  Not unlike those folks downtown who are super slow in the crosswalk to keep you waiting, but then speed up their pace as soon as they hit the curb.  Ugh.

A five iron across the knuckles is too good for em. 

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15 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Damn shame since it was so nice out and the temperature just dropped 20 degrees this afternoon.

 

 

It was 75° the day before yesterday, and it's 10° now.

Why didn't you guys skip a hole and go around the ball-shaggers?

Edited by Cartboy

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8 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

Why didn't you guys skip a hole and go around the ball-shaggers?

Not sure about the other two, but I'm not technically allowed to do that. Mind you, nobody would have caught me if I did. One of the many rules we sign off on with a City of Dayton, OH privilege pass includes not skipping holes. For better or worse, I tend to be rule follower.

I suppose given the layout of the course and my being on foot, it would have been a bit awkward anyway. We make the move, they speed up and we hit the next tee at the same time.

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16 hours ago, Beastie said:

If you are so slow as to take six hours to play 18, well I am not bothered as long as I get let through at the first opportunity. 

Not really a good option when the teesheet is packed.  They would have to let every group behind them play through.

That's why I ask how many of y'all have marshaled a tough course on a busy day . . . . you will hear every excuse in the book.  One of my favorites was a cigar-smoking, smart-talking older guy who had 3 young bucks in his group.  They had held up a 2-some all day, and at the third visit from me, on the 12th tee, he read me the riot-act with some choice, colorful words, saying it was the course's fault for allowing 2-somes to play.  He said he paid twice what they paid, so he was playing the way he wanted.

I went back and talked to the 2-some, a husband and wife, and told them they would have to go around that foursome.

Not long later I saw them at their car.  They were not upset, but they quit and came in because they did not want to upset the 4-some.

See, that's when  I'd like to be able to pull out my tablet and see if they wanted to re-play at a discount.

BTW, some 2-somes, often couples, won't book unless we block the other two slots at their tee time.

 

 

3 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Not sure about the other two, but I'm not technically allowed to do that. Mind you, nobody would have caught me if I did. One of the many rules we sign off on with a City of Dayton, OH privilege pass includes not skipping holes. For better or worse, I tend to be rule follower.

I suppose given the layout of the course and my being on foot, it would have been a bit awkward anyway. We make the move, they speed up and we hit the next tee at the same time.

Wow!  Never heard of that, no-hole-skipping rule.

& funny how some slow groups speed up when you play through.

Edited by Cartboy
s

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13 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

& funny how some slow groups speed up when you play through.

Particularly when that slow group is a couple of serious A-holes.

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