Stop Aiming at the Flag!!! #DeadCenter

[kaplack]

Do you get that only the best player  has the right opinion is an old idea?

Usually  put forth by the kind of people who write stuff like "stop being a dick in the process".

Oh what a class act you are!

And I have beaten a lot of former touring pros and to follow "your" reasoning ; if OP is or was so all knowing and that is what made him or makes him so great he would be on the PGA tour now.

[tmac20]

Does anyone even understand what this guy is saying? Is English his second language? I'm having a hard time following his posts.

[MS256]

And I have beaten a lot of former touring pros

Who are they?

I only know one and I'll put my money on him against any 3 handicap every time. I'm not a big gambler but I like sure bets.

[Pave]

Yes. The OP made a sweeping statement that has some merit but is not entirely accurate.

eg. There's a Par 3 on the back nine at Kinloch (NZ) which is a top 100 course. I wouldn't aim at the flag, I wouldn't even aim at the centre of the green, heck, I wouldn't even aim at the green, I would actually aim to miss the green right and back myself to get up and down.

The Par 5 1st at Riverside Oaks has a green that is 70 metres wide, biggest green in Australia, if the flag is cut short right, do you really expect a single figure marker to aim 35 metres left of the flag with a wedge just because it's a GIR?

Extremely fast greens are another example where you must keep the ball under the hole at all costs, even if it means missing short.

I'm sure the OP means well, but I would like to think he could explain how good players manage the way they attack or play a hole a little better than he has.

Guess we'll have to buy the book!

[kaplack]

They are all former tour pros for a reason.

Can you guess what it is?

[MS256]

They are all former tour pros for a reason.

Can you guess what it is?

I can't even "guess" who you are talking to most of the time.

[LuciusWooding]

They are all former tour pros for a reason.

Can you guess what it is?

Because you told them to aim at the flag and they got so many penalty strokes they lost their cards and became 18 handicappers?

[mvmac]

And I have beaten a lot of former touring pros and to follow "your" reasoning ; if OP is or was so all knowing and that is what made him or makes him so great he would be on the PGA tour now.

Dave is also one of the best instructors in the world. I would recommend re-reading the OP, lots of good info.

Also please learn to multi-quote

Newbie Helpers - Little Things Everyone Expects and Asks of Users

[tristanhilton85]

eg. There's a Par 3 on the back nine at Kinloch (NZ) which is a top 100 course. I wouldn't aim at the flag, I wouldn't even aim at the centre of the green, heck, I wouldn't even aim at the green, I would actually aim to miss the green right and back myself to get up and down.

Maybe that's what you would do, but stats say that's not the right play. You have a much better chance of two putting (even if the first one is a long putt) vs. getting up and down from off the green. The entire point of this thread is that being on is better than being off and the way you get on more frequently is to aim to hit the center.

The Par 5 1st at Riverside Oaks has a green that is 70 metres wide, biggest green in Australia, if the flag is cut short right, do you really expect a single figure marker to aim 35 metres left of the flag with a wedge just because it's a GIR?

That's not what it says in the OP... for a single figure handicap it says that from within 100 yards, it is fine to go after the flag. On top of that, there are always going to be a few exceptions, and I'd imagine that hitting to "the biggest green in Australia" maybe one of them. Maybe in that case you aim to hit the center of the correct tier of the green.

Extremely fast greens are another example where you must keep the ball under the hole at all costs, even if it means missing short.

Another point where I think people overestimate their abilities off the green... having a quick downhill putt is still better than having no putt at all. There is no guarantee that you keep the chip below the hole and avoid having that slick putt anyways, or get so caught up in how quick that putt is coming down that you leave it way short and still have a long 2 putt after already missing the green.

I'm sure the OP means well, but I would like to think he could explain how good players manage the way they attack or play a hole a little better than he has.

Guess we'll have to buy the book!

Like the OP says, this is a bit of a general statement and just part of what is going to be in the book. I'm sure there is more to come. That being said, if golfers were to follow this advice to the tee, I'd have no doubt that they'd see lower scores. They may give up a birdie or two, but they'd eliminate a whole bunch of bogies.

[mdl]

But I do have a story from a young Tiger Woods about the first time he played with Nick Price; who was the best player in the world at the time.

Tiger said during the round he shot about every flag and Nick shot at about 4-5 flags.

Tiger learned something during that round and changed, most of you formula followers never will.

So you're being super pissy but 100% agreeing with the point of this thread.  Even Tiger, probably the best player ever to play the game, learned as a young player playing a round with a more experienced player who was another of the best players ever to play that even the best players in the world only shoot at 4-5 flags in a round.  The whole point of this thread is that none of us are among the best players ever, so we surely shouldn't be trying to stiff more pins than those who are.  So the point of the OP remains.  And Nick Price and Tiger both agree.  Your expected score sitting 2 on the green with a tough putt is better than the expected score sitting two off the green, even close, even if you're among the best players in the world.  So try to get on the green more often instead of trying to be as close as possible when you are on the green but missing the green more often.

And the OP is a rule of thumb.  If you read the whole thread you'll see that the OP and all of the supporters are aware there are tons of variables, and there are specific instances where you're holding a 7i and the play with the lowest expected score is not to shoot pin high at the center of the green left/right (which is the rule of thumb recommendation).

[Pave]

Maybe that's what you would do, but stats say that's not the right play. You have a much better chance of two putting (even if the first one is a long putt) vs. getting up and down from off the green. The entire point of this thread is that being on is better than being off and the way you get on more frequently is to aim to hit the center.

That's not what it says in the OP... for a single figure handicap it says that from within 100 yards, it is fine to go after the flag. On top of that, there are always going to be a few exceptions, and I'd imagine that hitting to "the biggest green in Australia" maybe one of them. Maybe in that case you aim to hit the center of the correct tier of the green.

Another point where I think people overestimate their abilities off the green... having a quick downhill putt is still better than having no putt at all. There is no guarantee that you keep the chip below the hole and avoid having that slick putt anyways, or get so caught up in how quick that putt is coming down that you leave it way short and still have a long 2 putt after already missing the green.

Like the OP says, this is a bit of a general statement and just part of what is going to be in the book. I'm sure there is more to come. That being said, if golfers were to follow this advice to the tee, I'd have no doubt that they'd see lower scores. They may give up a birdie or two, but they'd eliminate a whole bunch of bogies.

So Tristan, you and I agree. The only difference is I've got a better short game, I hit my wedge further and I don't go at 270yd par 3s over crap with trouble short and left!!!!!!

[Shindig]

Another point where I think people overestimate their abilities off the green... having a quick downhill putt is still better than having no putt at all. There is no guarantee that you keep the chip below the hole and avoid having that slick putt anyways, or get so caught up in how quick that putt is coming down that you leave it way short and still have a long 2 putt after already missing the green.

I don't even understand why having a downhill putt is so bad, especially for the vast numbers of players who are more inclined to leave a flat putt short. Worst case scenario is usually that I'll end up about where I'd be after a decent (not great, just decent) chip. That and, on an uphill chip, I'll hit past the cup about as often as I hit short of it. In other words, at least for me, I think I'm probably in a better position to be middle of a green, facing a downhill putt, than I'd be off the green, in a decent lie, chipping up. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'll be sure to reconsider this the next time I play Augusta or in the U.S. Open.

[iacas]

In other words, at least for me, I think I'm probably in a better position to be middle of a green, facing a downhill putt, than I'd be off the green, in a decent lie, chipping up. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'll be sure to reconsider this the next time I play Augusta or in the U.S. Open.

You are. That's precisely right.

[mvmac]

In other words, at least for me, I think I'm probably in a better position to be middle of a green, facing a downhill putt, than I'd be off the green, in a decent lie, chipping up. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'll be sure to reconsider this the next time I play Augusta or in the U.S. Open.

Yep, I'll take take putting vs chipping all day.

[Ernest Jones]

Can't even remember the last time I skulled a putt over the green and into a trap/pond...

[14ledo81]

Can't even remember the last time I skulled a putt over the green and into a trap/pond...

Same here.....but I have fatted a putt before.

[Ernest Jones]

Same here.....but I have fatted a putt before.

Lol, me too!!!

[saevel25]

Same here.....but I have fatted a putt before.

Oh I hate duff putting