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Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

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3 hours ago, chspeed said:

Looks like bookies are offering 100/1 odds on Woods' winning the masters. That's a serious sucker bet. Considering the latest news, the odds of him even playing in the Masters are slim. Winning? Probability has to be lower than 1%.

I learned my lesson on this.  

When he had surgery on his knee in late 2002, his first tournament after recovering was at Torrey Pines in 2003.  A friend offered me a bet...he got Tiger, and I got the rest of the field but had to lay 2:1 odds.  At the time it was a no-brainer.  I get everyone else in the field against a guy coming off knee surgery?  I would have given him 10:1 if he would have asked for it!  I put up $100 against his $50 and lost.  

It was then I decided never to bet against Tiger again, no matter what the odds are.  He has proven too many times he is capable of doing amazing things at any given time.  I wouldn't bet against him even if he was in a full body cast. 

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2 hours ago, Yukari said:

Seems like it's gotta be more than a simple back spasm if he can't even sit for a press conference.

Or he just doesn't want to do a press conference.  

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4 hours ago, Braivo said:

This is real bad news. I just heard someone state on a podcast that he hit the weights really hard after Bahamas and that his inner circle was trying to convince him to lay off. He looked far better in Bahamas than he did in January, even though he was more "jacked" in January.

This supports my theory that his ego still poses a problem, he simply cannot accept reality and that golf, and life, will look a little different for him now. It is well documented that nearly all of his major back troubles have occurred since taking an interest in putting on significant amounts of muscle and training his body to the max. 

Before Bahamas he was still recovering from surgery and hadn't been lifting, after he felt good so he started lifting again, then the wheels come off. He doesn't need muscle mass to be a competitive golfer, he needs to be able to turn. 

When David Duvall was hitting the weights hard and got ripped was about the time he started having back problems too, wasn't it?

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4 hours ago, Braivo said:

This is real bad news. I just heard someone state on a podcast that he hit the weights really hard after Bahamas and that his inner circle was trying to convince him to lay off. He looked far better in Bahamas than he did in January, even though he was more "jacked" in January.

You can't get "jacked" in a month.

Tiger from the Bahamas.

image.jpegweb1_ap16335572234408_7498677.jpgweb1_ap16335686502257_7498677.jpg

Tiger at Torrey Pines, obviously he's wearing more layers but looks the same as he did a month before.

FarmersInsuranceOpen-2017-8.jpgimage-1.jpegtiger-woods-missed-the-cut-at-torrey-pines-but-will-get-right-back-to-work-in-dubai__798811_.jpg


@Braivo, not saying he didn't hurt himself lifting, you can definitely hurt your back lifting with bad technique or going too heavy. Just disagree with people saying he looks, or has ever looked "big". I think the problem is more serious than just hurting himself in the weight room. 

After the Bahamas he looked like he could make a comeback, now it seems like he may be done. Dude can't even do a press conference? (Probably just using the back spasm as an excuse to get out it  ;-)).

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30 minutes ago, 1badbadger said:

When David Duvall was hitting the weights hard and got ripped was about the time he started having back problems too, wasn't it?

Look at the guys with real longevity like Mickelson, Watson, Nicklaus, Palmer, Furyk and you don't see many pumping much iron. Gary Player seems to be the only one who put fitness as a priority, and even then he doesn't lift heavy weights. 

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4 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Mickelson, Watson, Nicklaus, Palmer, Furyk

Most of those guys are from the older generation, where none of them lifted. Plenty of them also bowed out with injury, too.

Vijay Singh had a pretty long career and worked hard at his game and on his body and fitness. Gary Player, like you said.

And Phil has had his share of injuries and ailments - his wrist, his arthritis, etc.

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11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Most of those guys are from the older generation, where none of them lifted. Plenty of them also bowed out with injury, too.

Vijay Singh had a pretty long career and worked hard at his game and on his body and fitness. Gary Player, like you said.

And Phil has had his share of injuries and ailments - his wrist, his arthritis, etc.

I agree, but there's a significant difference between "fitness" and actively trying to gain muscle mass / strength when it comes to physical toll on a body. For a recent example, Tom Brady credits a shift away from weightlifting as a major factor in prolonging his career and ending the nagging pain / injuries. 

I am not sure strength training adds a lot of value to a golfer's game, but comes with some real downside risks. If a NFL quarterback can play into his 40s without it I am sure golfers could do the same. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Braivo said:

I am not sure strength training adds a lot of value to a golfer's game, but comes with some real downside risks. If a NFL quarterback can play into his 40s without it I am sure golfers could do the same.

You're not comparing like to like.

The golf swing is pretty unique in sports, not only for how violent it can be to certain parts of your body, but how often one must repeat it at high speeds to play top-level golf.

Look at how often pitchers - guys who limit their pitch count to about 100 every 5 or 6 days - need surgery, or how long their careers tend to last.

A number of golfers back in the day had to quit or limit their schedules because of injury, and a number of players now lift and train and have long careers.

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Then you have Fred Couples and Seve Ballesteros. They didn't work out and still had lots of back problems. I'm sure there are your fair share of non workout players who had back problems. 

What about Greg Norman? Guessing he works out a lot. Not too many problems with the back?

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36 minutes ago, iacas said:

You're not comparing like to like.

The golf swing is pretty unique in sports, not only for how violent it can be to certain parts of your body, but how often one must repeat it at high speeds to play top-level golf.

Look at how often pitchers - guys who limit their pitch count to about 100 every 5 or 6 days - need surgery, or how long their careers tend to last.

A number of golfers back in the day had to quit or limit their schedules because of injury, and a number of players now lift and train and have long careers.

Strength is an advantage, and Tiger has proven that.  He has hit shots that no one else could pull off because of his strength. This is a perfect example:

But, I believe there is a point of diminishing return and it can be over-done. Look at Keith Clearwater.  From the article below:

Quote

Clearwater, 38, was considered one of the Tour's bright lights in the late '80s, when he won two tournaments. Then in '92 he began to lift and was soon maxing out. It wasn't long before he gained 22 pounds of muscle, putting 215 pounds on his 6-foot frame. As Clearwater's strength increased, his earnings and effectiveness as a golfer decreased. He developed a short, quick swing, and many observers believed he was constricted by his musculature. By 1995 Clearwater had lost his exemption. 

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/who-is-keith-clearwater-and-wh

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15 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

I looked up backspasams for the heck of it and this caught my eye.

IMG_7285.PNG

There is a probability there is something they aren't telling us.  

1

 

15 hours ago, iacas said:

Like what?

 

Well, according to the information I quoted it says "muscle spasms also may signal injury or damage to an underlying spinal structure such as the vertebrae, discs or ligaments that connect the vertebrae"  and with the news that he is still suffering, I mentioned there is a probability there is something they aren't telling us....  Maybe he injured something new and he doesn't know it?  I don't know, I'm speculating like everyone else.

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Just now, Abu3baid said:

Well, according to the information I quoted it says "muscle spasms also may signal injury or damage to an underlying spinal structure such as the vertebrae, discs or ligaments that connect the vertebrae"  and with the news that he is still suffering, I mentioned there is a probability there is something they aren't telling us....  Maybe he injured something new and he doesn't know it?  I don't know, I'm speculating like everyone else.

I think it's more likely it is the injuries and surgeries he's already had. Occam's Razor.

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2 hours ago, Braivo said:

Look at the guys with real longevity like Mickelson, Watson, Nicklaus, Palmer, Furyk and you don't see many pumping much iron. 

Yet when you look at some the top players in the world today, Stenson, Rory, Day, Spieth, DJ, Justin Rose, Adam Scott, they all do strength training.

I think too many people try to label lifting as the culprit when there are more things at play. Your swing, genetics, mobility, etc.

You can have a long career and do strength training (Bernard Langer, Vijay, Brad Faxon) and you can have a injury prone career being a couch potato (Fred Couples).

Think about the motions of the deadlift, squat, overhead press, they are all more "natural" movements and on one plane of motion. Compare that to the twisting in flexion of a golf swing, a motion we evolutionarily weren't designed to perform, might run into some problems when you do it thousands of times at a high speed.

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8 hours ago, iacas said:

Most of those guys are from the older generation, where none of them lifted. Plenty of them also bowed out with injury, too.

Vijay Singh had a pretty long career and worked hard at his game and on his body and fitness. Gary Player, like you said.

And Phil has had his share of injuries and ailments - his wrist, his arthritis, etc.

Many years ago I read an article about how Nicklaus had taken up tennis, and enjoyed playing during the off season. The article went on to say that Nicklaus actually worried about playing TOO MUCH tennis, since it used only his right arm!

This might sound odd, but those my age might remember pro tennis champion Rod Laver. He had this enormous, jacked up, Popeye right arm, and just a regular left arm. The difference was so extreme it was kind of bizarre looking.

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3 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

This might sound odd, but those my age might remember pro tennis champion Rod Laver. He had this enormous, jacked up, Popeye right arm, and just a regular left arm. The difference was so extreme it was kind of bizarre looking.

Was he single?

IIRC he played tennis lefty. ;-)

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

Was he single?

IIRC he played tennis lefty. ;-)

You gotta be ambidextrous these days to stay symmetrical  :banana:

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LOS ANGELES – Tiger Woods, the unofficial host of this week’s Genesis Open, will not be at Riviera Country Club for Sunday’s trophy presentation, his manager Mark Steinberg with Excel Sports Management told Golf Channel’s Todd Lewis.

Woods announced last week he would not play the Genesis Open, which benefits his foundation, or next week’s Honda Classic as he continues to recover from back spasms that forced him to withdraw after just one round from the Omega Dubai Desert Classic earlier this month.

Genesis Open: Articles, photos and videos

Even when he’s not playing, Woods is normally on site after the final round at events that benefit his foundation, like when Billy Hurley III won the Quicken Loans National last summer.

There is no timeline for Woods’ return to competition, and Steinberg told the Associated Press earlier this week that doctors had advised Tiger to remain “horizontal.” His next possible start could be the Arnold Palmer Invitational in four weeks.

 

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