Evolution of High Launch and Low Spin

[WUTiger]

Back in a previous century (circa 1974), I badly cracked the crown of my persimmon-headed Wilson Staff driver while warming up for a round of golf. Remembering I had a matching WS 2 wood in the trunk of my car, I swapped it out and had a very good round that day.

I played out the season with the 2W / Brassie - 13* loft - and had a good year with tee shots. The following year, I went back to a standard driver, and as I recall somewhat less reliable tee shots.

The summer of 1974 came to mind when TM started trumpeting the "loft up" and the Mini-Driver.

[boil3rmak3r]

Based on this thread, I went ahead and adjusted my Titleist 910 from the standard 9.5* (which I've played for years) to the max of 11*. The results after 4 rounds have been positive. I'm hitting the ball a little longer (not much, but I'll take what I can get) and I appreciate the higher ball flight as it sometimes keeps me above certain trees at my course. Someone mentioned this earlier, but when I first started doing this and hit one that SEEMED too high, I was amazed at the distance I got. Now I'm wondering if a Slider, which is designed for high launch, wouldn't perform even better...

[mvmac]

Based on this thread, I went ahead and adjusted my Titleist 910 from the standard 9.5* (which I've played for years) to the max of 11*. The results after 4 rounds have been positive. I'm hitting the ball a little longer (not much, but I'll take what I can get) and I appreciate the higher ball flight as it sometimes keeps me above certain trees at my course. Someone mentioned this earlier, but when I first started doing this and hit one that SEEMED too high, I was amazed at the distance I got.

Now I'm wondering if a Slider, which is designed for high launch, wouldn't perform even better...

Don't forget the "low spin" part of the equation

[boil3rmak3r]

Don't forget the "low spin" part of the equation ;-)

Well, I just tried the 910 at a higher loft just to see. I didn't say this, but I played two rounds with it at 10.25*, and my lady 4 rounds have been with it at 11*. I don't know what my spin numbers are, but my overall distance is better at 11*. That's why I'm wondering how good a TM may be...

[mvmac]

Well, I just tried the 910 at a higher loft just to see. I didn't say this, but I played two rounds with it at 10.25*, and my lady 4 rounds have been with it at 11*. I don't know what my spin numbers are, but my overall distance is better at 11*. That's why I'm wondering how good a TM may be...

Is it a D2? If it is then there is a good chance a 913 D2, or most TaylorMade, Callaway, PING drivers would spin less and launch just as high.

[boil3rmak3r]

Is it a D2? If it is then there is a good chance a 913 D2, or most TaylorMade, Callaway, PING drivers would spin less and launch just as high.

It is a D2. Thanks for letting me know

[Lihu]

I've just started teeing up my driver about 3" off the ground and played with 4" tees a bit.

The results are starting to look pretty cool. The really high launching ball is really cool to look at, although not really far yet (barely 230-240 carry), but I feel like this is a scalable way to hit it. A faster body turn could make the ball go further. At least that's what it feels like.

The other thing is that 4" tees are more readily available. I remember looking for them 2 years ago without any success.

Seems like more people are teeing it up for higher launch?

[Mr. Desmond]

Well, I just tried the 910 at a higher loft just to see. I didn't say this, but I played two rounds with it at 10.25*, and my lady 4 rounds have been with it at 11*. I don't know what my spin numbers are, but my overall distance is better at 11*. That's why I'm wondering how good a TM may be...

From everything I've read and seen on the range, be careful about the SLDR. You should try the 12 degree and possibly loft up from there due to what mvmac said -- low spin.

From all reports, and in comparison with what you are using now, the SLDR lacks forgiveness. So while you may get the distance outlier, you may catch the dreaded inconsistency. Get on a sim or get a guarantee (if they still have that deal) or buy from PGA Tour Superstore or other retailer with a playability guarantee.

I think weight low and back still has its advantages -- ask Angel Cabrera about his Ping G30 today...

[saevel25]

From everything I've read and seen on the range, be careful about the SLDR. You should try the 12 degree and possibly loft up from there due to what mvmac said -- low spin.

From all reports, and in comparison with what you are using now, the SLDR lacks forgiveness. So while you may get the distance outlier, you may catch the dreaded inconsistency. Get on a sim or get a guarantee (if they still have that deal) or buy from PGA Tour Superstore or other retailer with a playability guarantee.

I think weight low and back still has its advantages -- ask Angel Cabrera about his Ping G30 today...

I don't know, compare how many tour wins Cabrera has versus Dustin Johnson.

As for forgiveness on mishits, the SLDR does very well because of the low COG. I thin shots that out drive my previous Titliest driver. Honestly, the sweet spot on that clubs is just as good as any other driver.

It is a D2. Thanks for letting me know

[Pretzel]

From everything I've read and seen on the range, be careful about the SLDR. You should try the 12 degree and possibly loft up from there due to what mvmac said -- low spin. From all reports, and in comparison with what you are using now, the SLDR lacks forgiveness. So while you may get the distance outlier, you may catch the dreaded inconsistency. Get on a sim or get a guarantee (if they still have that deal) or buy from PGA Tour Superstore or other retailer with a playability guarantee. I think weight low and back still has its advantages -- ask Angel Cabrera about his Ping G30 today...

This may be off topic, but I didn't find the TM driver to be all that less forgiving that any of the other drivers I tested. It felt crummy on an off-center hit, but mishits were similar to the other clubs in terms of distance and accuracy. That's just my $.02 though, I have no data other than my personal results to back that up.

[Mr. Desmond]

This may be off topic, but I didn't find the TM driver to be all that less forgiving that any of the other drivers I tested. It felt crummy on an off-center hit, but mishits were similar to the other clubs in terms of distance and accuracy. That's just my $.02 though, I have no data other than my personal results to back that up.

I think it's still on topic because, if I have this correct,  keeping the weight low yet moving it forward, lowers spin and increases ball speed but lowers MOI. So it's all interrelated. I have an R1, and my guess is the SLDR is slightly less forgiving (weight is more forward, lowering MOI).

I guess it depends on the comparable drivers in your test.

I had a Bobby Jones Black on the range today with the R1 in comparable setups and new range balls (meh) -- the BJ Black's weight is low and back and cup faced, the R1's weight is low yet relatively forward with a plasma weld face. I was surprised. The BJ Black was consistently longer by more than a little. On a great hit, the R1 was as long (estimated) but the BJ was consistent and long.

So let's not discount the weight low and back drivers yet. They still work, probably better for a large majority of golfers. The better golfers? They will enjoy clubs like the SLDR. I've seen and talked with better golfers who like clubs like the SLDR - high launch, low spin and the longest drives they've ever hit. It's a balance -- this high launch, low spin and weight forward. I've seen terrible golfers with the SLDR and it was comical. Of course, they might have been comical with any driver. It's just that the SLDR doesn't give them a chance.

High launch, low spin? Definitely ... but don't forget higher MOI if you need it. It's a balance. And sometimes the latest and greatest ideas don't give you the best distance or the best opportunity for a GIR.

[boil3rmak3r]

I don't know, compare how many tour wins Cabrera has versus Dustin Johnson. :-D As for forgiveness on mishits, the SLDR does very well because of the low COG. I thin shots that out drive my previous Titliest driver. Honestly, the sweet spot on that clubs is just as good as any other driver.  D2 was a very high spinning driver compared to other drivers in the years it came out. So lofting up wouldn't work as well for you in that regard.  I had a 910D2 and went to the SLDR. I was hitting a low launching shaft, and turned the 910D2 down to 8.75 degrees. I produced 3000+ rpm.  Now I play the SLDR, the shaft is still low launching, and I have it set to 10 degrees of launch. I produce 1800-2200 rpm of spin. I added nearly 1.25 degrees of loft, and took off over 1000 rpm.

I'm sure the SLDR is better at reducing spin than my old D2 can, but lofting my D2 up has been beneficial for me. I wish I knew what my launch and spin numbers are... I'm really not in the market for a new driver, but when I am in 3 or 4 years, it'll be interesting to see if all manufacturers will have gone the high launch/low spin route.

[mvmac]

I think it's still on topic because, if I have this correct,  keeping the weight low yet moving it forward, lowers spin and increases ball speed but lowers MOI. So it's all interrelated. I have an R1, and my guess is the SLDR is slightly less forgiving (weight is more forward, lowering MOI).

Yes MOI isn't as high as in other drivers like G25/30, Big Bertha, 913 D2. TaylorMade's take is that the ball speed you pick up is worth the "sacrifice" in forgiveness. Adding more loft can also make it "easier" to hit.

I'm really not in the market for a new driver, but when I am in 3 or 4 years, it'll be interesting to see if all manufacturers will have gone the high launch/low spin route.

Basically all drivers on the market now are designed for high launch/low spin and have been for a few years.

[Lihu]

Yes MOI isn't as high as in other drivers like G25/30, Big Bertha, 913 D2. TaylorMade's take is that the ball speed you pick up is worth the "sacrifice" in forgiveness. Adding more loft can also make it "easier" to hit.

Basically all drivers on the market now are designed for high launch/low spin and have been for a few years.

That's also very interesting.

My personal breakthrough to obtain high launch has been to tee it up a lot more with my G15 club.

[Jeremie Boop]

On my flightscope session it showed I averaged +3.9 AoA and 15.2 spin loft.Unfortunately my smash factor was horrible and my spin averaged 4523.... Pretty much showed exactly what I see on the course, all carry and no roll. averaged a massive 3.3 yards roll!my best spin was 1888 +4 AoA and 14 spin loft. He told me a different driver wouldn't help me, which I agreed on, simply because my smash factor was so low I need to work on getting that up before worrying about anything else. Of course he/I could be wrong on that.

[billchao]

On my flightscope session it showed I averaged +3.9 AoA and 15.2 spin loft.Unfortunately my smash factor was horrible and my spin averaged 4523.... Pretty much showed exactly what I see on the course, all carry and no roll. averaged a massive 3.3 yards roll!my best spin was 1888 +4 AoA and 14 spin loft. He told me a different driver wouldn't help me, which I agreed on, simply because my smash factor was so low I need to work on getting that up before worrying about anything else. Of course he/I could be wrong on that.

That sounds accurate. I believe you should see a reduction in spin numbers simply from hitting the sweetspot more.

[mvmac]

On my flightscope session it showed I averaged +3.9 AoA and 15.2 spin loft.Unfortunately my smash factor was horrible and my spin averaged 4523.... Pretty much showed exactly what I see on the course, all carry and no roll. averaged a massive 3.3 yards roll!my best spin was 1888 +4 AoA and 14 spin loft. He told me a different driver wouldn't help me, which I agreed on, simply because my smash factor was so low I need to work on getting that up before worrying about anything else. Of course he/I could be wrong on that.

Were you mis hitting it low on the face? Or towards the heel?

[motsco]

what is AoA and Moi really do? sorry if this may be off topic but I have to ask. last year I used a xhot 10.5. it got the ball in the air for me very well, but I hit it towards the heel a lot. this year I went to my pro because the xhot was just to high in flight and there was no roll, so we worked on my swing and shafts. even with a better swing heel shots would creep back into my game. we worked on numbers at this point, and changed shafts by the time we got to a shaft that got my numbers decent and a lot more center of face, I noticed there was a i25 sitting in his shop, so I asked him I I could take it for a spin. at this point we turned on the machine and looked at the numbers. my xhot still not very center hits was spinning in the 3000 range and up. when I hit the i25 I almost fell over from the feel. center top hit spin rate 2500 ish. I was able to to stay in the 2000 range and hit more center to toe with the i25. I wish I remember my other numbers but all I rember is spin and distance. what in these 2 clubs would make me hit one better then the other?