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"Lowest Score Wins" by Barzeski and Wedzik

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To answer your question....I ONLY measure carry distance on my shot zones. The reason is simple...... My distance zones are set up such that I am landing in the middle of the green. I'm not trying to hit the front and let it bounce on. That way I have a higher chance of success with hitting the greens. I will also say that I played on Sat and Sunday and shot an 88 at Highlands from the blacks (73 handicap) and I know that I EASILY played better than my score would suggest. Because of that one part of the book clicking with me about concentrating on pulling your left arm down from the backswing I am carrying my driver a solid 10 - 20 yards further than before. It's such a difference that it put me into new situations. For instance on the second hole I am used to having a 115 yard shot to the green which is an easy pitching wedge up hill. My drive put me at 86 yards in the fairway. Because of that I had to hit a 3/4 52 degree wedge which I never try and wound up blading it out of bounds for a two stroke loss. On number nine a LONG PAR 4 (450 yards) I usually aim my driver for center fairway. The problem with that is that there is a sand trap 298 yards away in the center of the fairway. In my usual well struck drivers I wind up about 5 to 10 yards away from that trap with a 160 yard shot to the green. This time I bomb the driver and FLY it 300 yards directly into the center of the trap. Now I have a 150 9 iron from the sand. I usually don't practice this but I was positive about my shot here. My shot zone though tells me that I have to aim right of the middle of the green to make the green. On this hole though there is a big drop off just to the right of the green so I can't play that. I then try to play my shot at the flag and strike it perfectly. It starts at the flag then draws left just enough to hit into the green side trap. Now I'm short sided in the sand. I put my shot about 20 feet from the hole an two putt for bogie. On just a couple of holes I wasn't or couldn't play my strategy based on the way I was driving it, but I really feel confident right now that I will put up some great scores over this next month! My one question on the shot zones is..... When you are trying to hit at a target and tracking your shots are you actively trying to hit at the flag? Reason I ask is that on my first few shots I draw them and end up 10-15 yards left of the hole. Now its very easy for me to then open the club face a little which allows me to hit closer to the flag. My question is should I be actively making changes to hit the flag or just aiming my stock draw shot directly at the flag?

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To answer your question....I ONLY measure carry distance on my shot zones. The reason is simple...... My distance zones are set up such that I am landing in the middle of the green. I'm not trying to hit the front and let it bounce on. That way I have a higher chance of success with hitting the greens. I will also say that I played on Sat and Sunday and shot an 88 at Highlands from the blacks (73 handicap) and I know that I EASILY played better than my score would suggest. Because of that one part of the book clicking with me about concentrating on pulling your left arm down from the backswing I am carrying my driver a solid 10 - 20 yards further than before. It's such a difference that it put me into new situations. For instance on the second hole I am used to having a 115 yard shot to the green which is an easy pitching wedge up hill. My drive put me at 86 yards in the fairway. Because of that I had to hit a 3/4 52 degree wedge which I never try and wound up blading it out of bounds for a two stroke loss. On number nine a LONG PAR 4 (450 yards) I usually aim my driver for center fairway. The problem with that is that there is a sand trap 298 yards away in the center of the fairway. In my usual well struck drivers I wind up about 5 to 10 yards away from that trap with a 160 yard shot to the green. This time I bomb the driver and FLY it 300 yards directly into the center of the trap. Now I have a 150 9 iron from the sand. I usually don't practice this but I was positive about my shot here. My shot zone though tells me that I have to aim right of the middle of the green to make the green. On this hole though there is a big drop off just to the right of the green so I can't play that. I then try to play my shot at the flag and strike it perfectly. It starts at the flag then draws left just enough to hit into the green side trap. Now I'm short sided in the sand. I put my shot about 20 feet from the hole an two putt for bogie. On just a couple of holes I wasn't or couldn't play my strategy based on the way I was driving it, but I really feel confident right now that I will put up some great scores over this next month! My one question on the shot zones is..... When you are trying to hit at a target and tracking your shots are you actively trying to hit at the flag? Reason I ask is that on my first few shots I draw them and end up 10-15 yards left of the hole. Now its very easy for me to then open the club face a little which allows me to hit closer to the flag. My question is should I be actively making changes to hit the flag or just aiming my stock draw shot directly at the flag?

It depends on what your stock shot is? Is it a push draw or is it a straight draw? You want to make sure that if you miss you don't end up in a bad spot next to the green.. The second variable is the flag position on the green and if your stock shot is playing towards or away from the bad area..

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I don't know if you caught what I was asking. I need to have a shot zone so that I know where to aim the ball to work with my swing. The location of the flag has nothing to do with it as I'm ALWAYS aiming to hit the center of the green. So if I'm trying to figure out an accurate shot zone then I need to take some variables out of the equation (I think). If the first five shots start at the center and draw left I will show five shots to the left of where I'm trying to hit. After that if I try to make a change and open the face then the next five show up right. I've just put a variable into the equation and thrown off what I'm trying to do with the shot zone in the first place. My question is if Dave and Erik are of the same opinio or if I should actively (when I'm mapping my shot zones) try to make changes to hit the center of the green or if I should just aim dead center and see what my stock shot does? Sorry Erik I replied before I saw your post.....

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Another question about the shot zones: Should the shot zones for tee balls be a lot longer ... Such that they start where the ball first touches the ground?

We mentioned this once or twice. It falls into the common sense zone. You're still picking your ball's final resting spot, but you have to take into account carry yardages with some clubs (like the driver) too. One mention is on page 178 (second full paragraph). Another is on page 172 (last paragraph).

That is something I think can't be measured though because conditions changed, but I would try to make the shot zone for tee shots be the carry distance.

No, you have to consider where your ball will roll out, too.

To answer your question....I ONLY measure carry distance on my shot zones. The reason is simple...... My distance zones are set up such that I am landing in the middle of the green. I'm not trying to hit the front and let it bounce on. That way I have a higher chance of success with hitting the greens.

That's not really advised, and it's going to be tough for you to play in firm conditions if you stick to that.

Shot Zones include where the ball lands and the final resting spot. For most shots, they're almost one and the same, so you can just make it simple and consider where the balls stop. I don't plan for a lot of roll with my 9-iron. :P

My one question on the shot zones is..... When you are trying to hit at a target and tracking your shots are you actively trying to hit at the flag? Reason I ask is that on my first few shots I draw them and end up 10-15 yards left of the hole. Now its very easy for me to then open the club face a little which allows me to hit closer to the flag. My question is should I be actively making changes to hit the flag or just aiming my stock draw shot directly at the flag?

When you are charting your Shot Zones? Yes. That is your target. Just hit your 20 shots trying to hit them the same. Don't start tweaking things in the middle of your "Shot Zone charting" process. That's practice, not charting your Shot Zones.

Remember, y'all have a members-only site where you can discuss these things and get answers.

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@iacas

In Chapter 28, Pro Tips, Adjusting for wind, you describe a sensible approach to club selection using percent of total distance.  However, you don't tell the reader what you think a 5% wind speed is?  Will this be in LSW 2, the sequel? You left me hanging on this one.

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In Chapter 28, Pro Tips, Adjusting for wind, you describe a sensible approach to club selection using percent of total distance.  However, you don't tell the reader what you think a 5% wind speed is?  Will this be in LSW 2, the sequel? You left me hanging on this one.

No. It varies depending on how high you hit the ball, how much you spin it, etc. Plus (to totally make something up), if we told you that "A 12 MPH is a 5% wind…" you'd be in virtually the same predicament - you'd be trying to figure out what the wind speed is.

It's just a general tip to get people to stop thinking that wind is "a one-club wind" regardless of the club in your hands or the direction of your shot.

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I haven't visited here in a few years, but wanted to say good job on the book. I bought it after hearing about it, was interested in some of the ideas and it is new information that you don't see anywhere else. Being relatively new to golf (played for 5 years) I've always thought that for handicapped players distance and ball striking were more important to your scoring than putting of which you guys have said and even went farther to say that it is more important for even pros. I've always been told that if someone wanted to get better they should do nothing but practice from 100yds and in. The problem is if you are a terrible driver of the ball you won't make it to 100yds out often enough to take advantage of your "practice"! If anyone was ever into card playing and read "The Theory of Poker" I can tell you this has similarities with regards to golf.

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I haven't visited here in a few years, but wanted to say good job on the book. I bought it after hearing about it, was interested in some of the ideas and it is new information that you don't see anywhere else.

Being relatively new to golf (played for 5 years) I've always thought that for handicapped players distance and ball striking were more important to your scoring than putting of which you guys have said and even went farther to say that it is more important for even pros. I've always been told that if someone wanted to get better they should do nothing but practice from 100yds and in. The problem is if you are a terrible driver of the ball you won't make it to 100yds out often enough to take advantage of your "practice"!

If anyone was ever into card playing and read "The Theory of Poker" I can tell you this has similarities with regards to golf.

I used to be a proponent of this theory, but I have been reformed. O:)

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OK ... confession time ... when I first read the hype ... I thought yea right ... but wanted to be a contributing member to the community and especially seeing what @iacas @david_wedzik and even @mvmac (and others) do for us with their insightful knowledge ... I went online and bought one as a show of support.

Part of the reason for my lack luster attitude is most books of these types bore the crap out me ... just tried to read Ben Hogan's

Well I got mine in the mail today ... great gobs of batsh1t batman ... this book is good!!!!  And my initial thoughts/perception were deada$$ wrong!!

I think it is so good I am going to buy my instructor one ... and work on some of the items with him!  (he is the one that gave me the Ben Hogan to read)

While I have just quickly read most of it, I will be going back and pulling out, and highlighting pieces to focus on at the range and course.

For anyone on the fence, I highly encourage you to purchase it, especially for those like me with a high handicap!

So to Erick and David, thank you!

Don't look for me tomorrow ... I am out implementing some of the things in this book.

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But I've been thinking about the relationship of shot zones, shot CONES, and shot centers, and it seems to me that once you get to a really** high level, the target should show up near either end of the shot zone.

We've provided an answer to this here: http://lowestscorewins.com/members/shot-zones-and-shot-cones .

Also, please note that you can review the book here as well as posting in this thread:

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We've provided an answer to this here: http://lowestscorewins.com/members/shot-zones-and-shot-cones .

Yes you have, and thanks for that!!

I am in the process of reading the book all the way through again (I sort of skipped or skimmed a lot of the instruction stuff the first time through) and will write a review after I finish. :)

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@iacas

My local indoor range has an "Aboutgolf simulator , Ag launch monitor studio, GC2 launch monitor with new *head measuring technology -"

Would one of these be equivalent to a Flightscope or Trackman to help me get my shot zones?

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My local indoor range has an "Aboutgolf simulator , Ag launch monitor studio, GC2 launch monitor with new *head measuring technology -"

Would one of these be equivalent to a Flightscope or Trackman to help me get my shot zones?

Sure.  They use aG tech on Golf Channel. TM and FS will almost literally map the ovals for you (you can delete some shots), but maybe the aG can do that too. Not that you need the oval mapping. Really, just the shot plot is good, with some idea of scale (distances/widths).

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So what is the best way to go about developing the Shot Zones. I suspect I might have to go out onto the course with one of the last tee times and find a golf hole here I can hit a lot of shots with out be interrupted, and loosing golf balls.

Though the golfsmith near me uses GC2 that can show dispersion areas like trackman and flightscope. Maybe I can go in when it is slow and rent out a simulator for an hour.

Has anyone actually plotted there Shot Zones, and how did you go about doing it?

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I finally finished it yesterday.  I want to read it one more time before doing a review.  Well done Dave and Erik!  This is book is just so well done.

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So what is the best way to go about developing the Shot Zones. I suspect I might have to go out onto the course with one of the last tee times and find a golf hole here I can hit a lot of shots with out be interrupted, and loosing golf balls.

Though the golfsmith near me uses GC2 that can show dispersion areas like trackman and flightscope. Maybe I can go in when it is slow and rent out a simulator for an hour.

Has anyone actually plotted there Shot Zones, and how did you go about doing it?

Yeah, it's not something that's terribly easy to do.  I don't have a course I can commandeer for an hour or whatever, so I figured my best bet would be to find a Trackman around here, but it seems the only ones all belong to fitters, and I don't see where there is a place I can go to just rent some time.

Sooooo ...

Last Thursday at the range, I tried to do it for my PW just by estimating.  Picked my target, hit my shot, then just wrote down my x,y coordinates on my phone.  Certainly there is a decent error factor in there, but I doubt it's going to be that much more than the error factor attributable to how I'm hitting it that day.  I still haven't plotted it, but I may try and find time today.  No idea how accurate it's going to be. :)

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I finally finished it yesterday.  I want to read it one more time before doing a review.  Well done Dave and Erik!  This is book is just so well done.


You're fast.

I'm still digesting little bits and pieces. Section 2 is of particular interest to me, and, for me, requires reading many times.

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