Are you ready for some NFL Football? 2014 Edition.

[Golfingdad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123

Putting the footballs next to the heater is illegal.  I know you're not going to agree with this, but its not the same thing.  One is something that the players probably thought was okay, but wasn't.  The ball was cold, so they tried to keep them warm.

You're right, I'm not going to agree with that, and honestly, I don't really think you do either.  Here's why:

Quote:

Dead serious.  Passing something off for inspection and hoping it passes vs changing it after inspection are different to me.

I'll give you one guess who said that. Hint: (It was you.)  Now, apparently, there are levels to "changing it after inspection."

I think at this point that I could come up with any scenario (real or hypothetical) and you'd find a way to say "it's different."

[dsc123]

You're right, I'm not going to agree with that, and honestly, I don't really think you do either.  Here's why:

I'll give you one guess who said that.   Hint: (It was you.)  Now, apparently, there are levels to "changing it after inspection."

I think at this point that I could come up with any scenario (real or hypothetical) and you'd find a way to say "it's different."

If you didn't know the rule, and were told that team A was playing on a cold day and put the balls near the sideline heater to keep them warm, that would sound normal to you.  If someone told you that team B's ball boy snuck into the bathroom after the refs tested the balls and put a pin in them, you'd think something shifty was going on.  One can genuinely be explained with "oh, I didn't know we couldn't do that."  The other can't.

Bonus question:  If you did know the rule--that balls should be inflated to 12.5 - 13.5--and that cold weather deflates the football, which of those two would you think were violating the spirit of the rule?  The team that put a pin in the ball so it would drop to 10.5, or the team that warmed up the ball, which probably brought it back to within the acceptable range.

Not saying the Vikes didn't break the rule.  But one carries an element of intent--a key point when discussing cheaters.

[club ho]

What is becoming clear is that the evidence that GOODEL and the NFL have on this issue is falling apart.

An important lesson learned here is if you know you did nothing wrong stand up for yourself because no one else is going to do it.

[dsc123]

What is becoming clear is that the evidence that GOODEL and the NFL have on this issue is falling apart.

An important lesson learned here is if you know you did nothing wrong stand up for yourself because no one else is going to do it.

Where do you get that lesson?

I see the lesson as: "When you're caught cheating, don't go on TV and deny responsibility because nobody will believe you."

[Golfingdad]

Where do you get that lesson?

I see the lesson as: "When you're caught cheating, don't go on TV and deny responsibility because nobody will believe you."

I assume you got this lesson from Robert Allenby?

(Giving up on the other discussion because its tiring.)

[dsc123]

I assume you got this lesson from Robert Allenby?

(Giving up on the other discussion because its tiring.)

Thank you.  I don't have that sort of self control.  Its always "I gotta stop....oh but I have to respond to this last one first..."

[Golfingdad]

Thank you.  I don't have that sort of self control.  Its always "I gotta stop....oh but I have to respond to this last one first..."

I don't either.  But at some point I have to do some work. ;)  And we both "know" that we are 100% correct on this, so if we don't eventually call it a day it'll never end.  But rest assured that I do see you point (even if its wrong ) and respect it.

The one thing that could probably keep me in the discussion, however, is more on that ridiculous article about the fumbling rates.

[phan52]

What is becoming clear is that the evidence that GOODEL and the NFL have on this issue is falling apart.

An important lesson learned here is if you know you did nothing wrong stand up for yourself because no one else is going to do it.

Mr. Kraft? Is that you?

[k-troop]

So, EXACTLY what the Vikings and Panthers did two months ago. Cool. Remind me again what their pinishment was and of all of the outrage and indignation we displayed? I know it's out there, but I'm getting old and I just don't remember.

It's an insignificant rule that no one cares about. However, Brady was confronted about it and lied (probably). Not only did he lie, he's going to let some kid take the fall. It's one of those cases (for me at least) where the cover up is far worse than the crime.

[saevel25]

It's an insignificant rule that no one cares about. However, Brady was confronted about it and lied (probably). Not only did he lie, he's going to let some kid take the fall.

It's one of those cases (for me at least) where the cover up is far worse than the crime.

I think it depends on how much Brady knew. There is a scenario that Brady could be totally ignorant to the EXACT measurement of the PSI in the ball. With that regard it could have been the Ball Boy, who has a conflict of interest by being an employee of the Patriots to get a ball that Brady likes. It is possible this was done by trial and error. Like Brady might make a comment, "No this one is a bit too firm". Then the Ball Boy would adjust the football till Brady liked it. In this whole scenario Brady might not even know the EXACT measurement of the PSI and if that even is below the regulation by the NFL.

Just saying, even if the ball boy is found to lower the PSI it doesn't mean that Brady was actually complicit in the act.

[Golfingdad]

It's one of those cases (for me at least) where the cover up is far worse than the crime.

I agree here.  Stupid of the NFL to allow this farce to continue instead of just admitting up front "we didn't check the balls thoroughly enough and some slightly under-inflated balls got through to the field."

Instead of this cover-up/witch-hunt, if they just admitted that their refs screwed up (god, that's a shocker, nobody is gonna believe that one!) the whole thing would have been over before it started.

And the ball boy thing is silly at this point;  as I understand it, he's being looked at as a "person of interest" because he went in the restroom for 90 seconds on his way to the field with the balls.  Hmmmm, I can't imagine what he possibly could have been doing in there for 90 seconds???

Consider that for a second.  Even if we assume that he went in there to deflate the balls, what kind of magician would he have to be to be able to successfully deflate 11 or 12 balls to Tom Brady's specifications in 90 seconds?  A couple of seconds to get the door locked behind you and then a couple more to get the balls out of the bag, then that leaves about 7 seconds per ball to get them just right and then back in the bag.  Yeah, that seems plausible. Waaaay more plausible than the refs just effed up and the NFL doesn't want to admit it.  People want to throw around Occam's Razor should spend a little more time considering that possibility.

[meenman]

Eli has always had tommy boys number so he speaks the truth!

http://nypost.com/2015/01/27/eli-manning-strange-tom-brady-knows-so-much-about-his-balls/

[club ho]

Lets look at the cast of characters supposedly involved in or have been a major critic of Deflation Gate:

Colts owner IRSAY: Been arrested for OUI and was found to have multiple drugs on his person including oxycontin and $29,000 cash. Can you say drug dealer?

Ray Lewis: major critic of Tom Brady and the Pats who after winning his first Super Bowl went out with some brothers from the HOOD for a wild night that ended up with two people murdered. While being photographed with a pimped out looking white fur coat that night it somehow disappeared.

The Baltimore Ravens: Unlike the Pats who realized that Aaron Hernandez was a scum bag and fired him.  The Ravens raised Lewis to a hero status.

NFL: Has Lewis as a commentator.

NFL Commissioner Goodel:After Ray RIce knocked his wife out in a elevator he levied a whopping 2 day suspension. He claims he never saw the video tape yet he did see the Pats ball boy stopping by for a piss stop.

Robert Kraft: Owner of Pats: Has been a Philanthropist in the New England area contributing to many charities

Bill Belichick: Without a doubt the most ingenious football coach in NFL history. Perfected the Hurry up offense, has arguably the best eye in finding under rated talent. Recently he has introduced mind boggling switch play of offensive receivers.  Yes he was fined for taping signals which most other teams were doing as well.

Tom Brady: A 6th round pick who has gone on to set a ton of records and will the first NFL QB to play in 6 Super Bowls.

Most importantly we are talking about the loss of 1 pound of pressure in a football which many physicists believe was caused by a temperature change.

[meenman]

NFL Commissioner Goodel:After Ray RIce knocked his wife out in a elevator he levied a whopping 2 day suspension. He claims he never saw the video tape yet he did see the Pats ball boy stopping by for a piss stop.

Robert Kraft: Owner of Pats: Has been a Philanthropist in the New England area contributing to many charities

Bill Belichick: Without a doubt the most ingenious football coach in NFL history. Perfected the Hurry up offense, has arguably the best eye in finding under rated talent. Recently he has introduced mind boggling switch play of offensive receivers.  Yes he was fined for taping signals which most other teams were doing as well.

Tom Brady: A 6th round pick who has gone on to set a ton of records and will the first NFL QB to play in 6 Super Bowls.

Most importantly we are talking about the loss of 1 pound of pressure in a football which many physicists believe was caused by a temperature change.

(parts deleted are irrelevant to every sane person)

Yeah Goodell, him and kraft are a bit too tight - why the patsies will get away with these shenanigans.

Kraft contributes to charities is a big deal? - anyone else who needs a tax write-off does too.

Belicheat - saying other teams were taping signals is weak - if belicheat is such a *genius*, why was he the only one caught? (because just like deflating balls, he continued after everyone was told to cut it out)

Brady - now a liar and probably a cheat - and will let a minimum wage clown take the fall for him.

Was not one pound of pressure - reports are 2 - and you have no defense for the patsies balls all deflating while the colts magically stayed the same.

Nothing will be better in the super bowl than seeing tommy boy cry like a little girl every time he is hit.

[Gunther]

I agree here.  Stupid of the NFL to allow this farce to continue instead of just admitting up front "we didn't check the balls thoroughly enough and some slightly under-inflated balls got through to the field." Instead of this cover-up/witch-hunt, if they just admitted that their refs screwed up (god, that's a shocker, nobody is gonna believe that one!) the whole thing would have been over before it started. And the ball boy thing is silly at this point;  as I understand it, he's being looked at as a "person of interest" because he went in the restroom for 90 seconds on his way to the field with the balls.  Hmmmm, I can't imagine what he possibly could have been doing in there for 90 seconds??? Consider that for a second.  Even if we assume that he went in there to deflate the balls, what kind of magician would he have to be to be able to successfully deflate 11 or 12 balls to Tom Brady's specifications in 90 seconds?  A couple of seconds to get the door locked behind you and then a couple more to get the balls out of the bag, then that leaves about 7 seconds per ball to get them just right and then back in the bag.  Yeah, that seems plausible.  :doh:   Waaaay more plausible than the refs just effed up and the NFL doesn't want to admit it.  People want to throw around Occam's Razor should spend a little more time considering that possibility.

You and others keep trying to come up with all these crazy scenarios to prove Brady was ignorant of this or that an act of cheating didn't occur. When you consider the preponderance of the evidence, along with the history of cheating prevalent in that organization, the ONLY logical conclusion that can be drawn is they frickin deflated the balls purposefully. Who knows how it happened, it did, which is the salient point here.

[teamroper60]

And what do you expect, the president of Mexico getting involved? You are missing all points, balls were tampered with after being checked by the refs, not slid by beforehand.

No, I don't expect the President of Mexico to get involved. But if this was as big of a deal as some of you all, a few former players still trying to be relevant and the media would have us believe, then why aren't current players up in arms about it? Secondly, the NFL statement did not say the air pressure was tested with a gauge (if you doubt me, go re-read it and pay attention to the words written, not what you assume was said/happened). So at this point it is entirely possible what the Patriots did was no different than what the Packers have done (and you seem perfectly fine with that)..

[meenman]

No, I don't expect the President of Mexico to get involved. But if this was as big of a deal as some of you all, a few former players still trying to be relevant and the media would have us believe, then why aren't current players up in arms about it?

Secondly, the NFL statement did not say the air pressure was tested with a gauge (if you doubt me, go re-read it and pay attention to the words written, not what you assume was said/happened). So at this point it is entirely possible what the Patriots did was no different than what the Packers have done (and you seem perfectly fine with that)..

What have the packers done? I see nothing where they tampered with balls during a game.

Past history plays a part - the patsies thumb their noses at the rules and have since belicheats evil reign started.

Current players - Eli Manning spoke out as have Seattle players - some of the rest are just too afraid (or too drugged up) to open their mouths.

[newtogolf]

The dumb and dumber routine Brady and Belichick are trying to pull off is insulting.  Bill who knows every single rule in the book has no idea what the rules or routine is for game balls and Brady who's a top QB in the league can't tell the difference between a properly inflated ball and one that's not.

Now we're supposed to believe the kid who may have deflated the balls risked his job altering the game balls all on his own.  If Brady can't tell the difference why would he deflate them or know to deflate them?

Bill denied Spygate until video was provided that made it impossible for him to deny it any longer.  That's what cheaters do.

I agree with @k-troop the cover up is pathetic.